Friday, August 20, 2010

A Triparshva Renku: August 24th, 2010

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The Tiniest Pebble





an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice / john



your words mingle
with the sound of rain / sandra



above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key / linda



the scent of memory
lies in weathered wood / willie



the frozen moon,
a dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye / takke



but for a yearling's breath
stillness holds the dawn / willie


**************************



showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas / sandra



above, a redbreast
clings to a pine / linda



engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of the pacifists / john



teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo /sandra



quick out the back
to the morning train's
clatter and smoke / willie



passing a bottle,
they spoke of their dreams / john



afterwards,
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk / sandra



ink caps sprout in clusters
down the coppice path / linda



up the ladder,
picking the nashi,
picking the moon / sandra



a paper mum
falls from the pages / willie


*************************




astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim / john



each star tonight
a tone from the watch night bell / willie



a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill / linda



young painted ponies
leap from stone walls / john



through the rain,
the cherry blossoms move
just a little / sandra



green tea and bird song
to mark another day / john


Completed October 1st, 2010



John Merryfield
Linda Papanicolao
Sandra Simpson
William Sorlien
Shinjuku Rollingstone (guest)



First Place Winner, Journal of Renga and Renku 2010 renku contest


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288 comments:

1 – 200 of 288   Newer›   Newest»
bandit said...

Hello everyone!

So nice of you to help us begin on such an auspicious night.

I've placed a summer schematic of triparshva more as a marker than anything, assuming participation of our friends in the Southern hemisphere may change our initial perspective if their lead verse is chosen.

I'd like to call for candidates for our first verse, hokku, two or three if possible, please.

Please include your name at beginning or end of your comment so we might properly identify you.

Thanks so much.

Willie

bandit said...

PS:

Make your hokku submission in any season you see fit.

Thanks

Willie

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Don't know if you want this kigo but it's what's going on in my life right now:

first day of school
I brush the cobwebs
from my bicycle lock

first day of school
the students' faces
flushed with heat

first day of school
looking up at the boy
whose voice has changed

Linda P.

bandit said...

I enjoy verses that are drawn from real life experience.

Willie

John Merryfield said...

Welcome Linda!... and thank you Willie for the invite. Here's a couple of Hokku offerings.

morning overcast
every peddle
has a voice

or: morning overcast
the tiniest peddle
has a voice


vivid dreams
heat a zenith
as we nap


swimming
the pool snake
and an only child

John M

sandra said...

Okally-dokally.

Let's try these:

once again
stories from the war -
trembling blossoms


gathering clouds -
the magnolias
move just a little


the pattern
of tonight's rain,
your words

Sandra

sandra said...

Hi there,

I think I'm okay in offering a cut verse for the hokku, but please let me know if that's not right.

And, um, scuse my thick-head, but what is a "peddle" from John's verses?? :) A puddle, a pebble?

Thanks,
Sandra

John Merryfield said...

Did you hear about the dyslexic driver who came to the T junction and did a U turn?

Yes, Sandra... Thank you... its PEBBLE, not peddle.

bandit said...

Hi guys!

My modem fried, so just a note on a borrowed machine to let you know I'll return, new modem in hand, hopefully today.

My apologies...

Willie

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Hi, John and Sandra. Beautiful offerings. Re John's I was enjoying them thinking it was 'petal'; amazing how differently they read as pebble' or would have as 'puddle'. My brain is truly ready to renku now!

Linda

bandit said...

Whew! A new modem is in place, a warranty offering, some other issues exist, but good enough to continue.
Please allow me a quick read, please...

bandit said...

Sandra, absolutely a cut verse is appropriate for hokku-tradition would demand it, of course.

Oh, and I'm so happy to have you on board. For that matter, a fine crew, in total, indeed!

Thank you one and all!

******************************

Please allow me to comment on the candidates:

First, my gut responds to John's second offering:

morning overcast
the tiniest pebble
has a voice / John

The sound of rain in the Japanese garden...

Ah, perhaps now I understand the allure... Also, 14 syllables, a nice length, a subtle approach, and it begs for an equally appropriate and winsome wakiku, which this group is defininately equipped to render.

I believe this may apply to a summer, or rainy season.

Let me try something:

your words mingling
with the sound of rain

I'm also taken with your verse, Sandra:

the pattern
of tonight's rain
-your words

lovely, Yet if memory serves, our betters are distinctly concerned with the length and give and take of 2 and 3 line verses combined.

"evening rain" is a traditional kigo for summer...

Might we hear any comments, opinions, edits, or further submissions, please?

I see we are all well identified by our heading "monikers".

John Merryfield said...

Similar to you Willie, I like Sandra's:

the pattern
of tonight's rain,
your words

It sets a rythmn and sparks my imagination.

I also like Sandra's:

gathering clouds
the magnolias
move just a little

For me, it references inter-connectedness, which I like, and there's a wonderful subtle awareness that leads me deeper.
Although blossom verse in hokku?

bandit said...

Your question allowed me to make some corrections in the example summer schematic above.

Also, as noted in the Renku Reckoner, a blossom verse should appear with its associated season, Spring, in this case, prior to ageku.

And is not a 'blossom' a flower preceding the formation of a fruit from a tree?

A little reading about Magnolia (wiki) may be necessary to discover the average season of flowering. My first guess? It doesn't necessarily grow in our cold climate...

I had a concern about an excess of flower or blossom verses, and a possible point of contention in a contest setting, especially considering the form's creator will be doing the judging. This is a question I'd like to ask of an experienced sabaki.

Good one, John, and a beautiful verse, Sandra.

I think I know someone who might look into this for us

bandit said...

To conserve time, I should note two points of discussion prior to the other's input:

I associate the 'pebble's voice' and 'words mingling' (rather, should that be "mingle", to make a slightly stronger statement?) candidiates with the conjoined effort of we assembled poets, making a coded message of sorts.

So then, to be clear, I propose the following:

hokku:

morning overcast
the tiniest pebble
has a voice / John M.

wakiku:

your words mingle
with the sound of rain / Sandra S.

I await your responses.

John Merryfield said...

Willie, I like the hokku - wakiku arrangement.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

exquisite!

bandit said...

I borrow (rather liberally) from a note from John Carley:

'Season position of ‘magnolia’ (in flower): I’d take to be an early summer reference. Wow, just checked the Virginia Saijiki – turns out it is a Japanese ref too – early summer!

Blossom verses in a Triparshva: it was certainly Norman’s intention when originating the Triparshava to more closely approximate the Kasen than did the Nijuin (for instance). From this we may gather that he was interested in furthering a more ‘traditional’ take on contemporary renku. By inference we might expect him to wish for the fixed topics moon, blossom, love to be treated more or less conventionally. The positions indicated in RR for blossom verses for the Triparshva reinforce this in that they mirror the Kasen except for the sequence begun in spring which *may* take blossom in the hokku (or indeed in wakiku - I might change the schema). This latter instance is based on a couple of Nijuin I’ve seen that were written by Japanese heavyweights (though I can’t swear to who, and I don’t know if I’ve got the texts!).

Conventional blossom verses: strictly speaking only cherry, with plum a distant second. There are in fact some Japanese poets who admit verses featuring the word ‘hana’ when this is part of a compound noun, particularly hanayome (bride) and hanagata (floral pattern for cloth). Personally I discount this practice as crude word-level thinking.

Semi-conventional blossom verses: when writing together Norman and I have twice used ‘blackthorn’ as the ‘blossom’. We live in similar climates and the blackthorn is just about the earliest blossoming tree (cherries are mid-late spring here). Strictly speaking of course ‘blackthorn’ is a type of plum tree. We have also discussed what it is that makes a ‘blossom’ verse. Though we have never attempted to settle or promote a joint position. It is my suspicion/contention that (as you suggest) the blossom should be precursor to an edible fruit and that it should not be too enduring. I also feel the wood should be workable. Or at least the tree to be standard/substantial – so not something shrubby. And of course it needs to be blooming in early spring!

Non conventional blossom verses: Master and Mistress Okamoto were quite specific in doing away with ‘blossom’, or rather broadening it out into ‘flower’ when writing the Junicho. The Shisan likewise may use ‘flower’.

So what to do? If writing for a competition I’d play safe. In the case of the Triparshava I’d have a cherry, plum, blackthorn, or near-identical at the classical penultimate position. There is however no reason that I can see why you can’t have a flowering magnolia in the first movement as an early summer kigo – though I’d avoid phrases such as ‘magnolia blossom’. If it’s just a magnolia tree there is no conflict whatsoever imaginable.'

I hope that answers your question, John.
As I see it, a flower reference is OK, assuming a suitable space is left between similar verses, say four verses. This may fly in the face of some "traditionalist" notions, however.
Whatever we decide, we should at the very least hold Sandra's Magnolia poem, or an uncut version, in hand, along with some others, of course.
Assuming Sandra will accept our first two proposed verses, shall we consider a daisan to follow?
Something with a steong shift-well, you know the drill.
I'll post at our first opportunity, along with some description in each heading to denote the type of setting: place, person, thing, something along those lines, so we might continue to describe a broad variety of "all things".

bandit said...

By the way, I hope you've noticed some links to kiyose and saijiki in the column to the right on the main page.

sandra said...

Hi all,

Willie I very much appreciate the way you've handled the hokku and wakiku, so yes you have my permission to edit the poem thus.

John is so good with his explanations, isn't he?

My thinking was as his - I didn't see magnolia as a "spring blossom" because the tree doesn't bear fruit.

August is a crossover between winter and spring here - when I was a child I was sure it was a spring month because lambs were being born and the blossom buds were coming out. However, as I type this hail is pounding the roof and there are deep rolls of thunder ... and there are beautiful big magnolias out on the trees!

Anyway, all that is to say that I quite agree!

And congrats John on the honour of the hokku position.

Best wishes,
Sandra

sandra said...

I would like to suggest reversing the order of the hokku's first line:

"morning overcast" doesn't sound natural, whereas "overcast morning" does (well, to my ears anyway).

bandit said...

Yes. Sandra thank you-
I, too, had some questions about John's first line, though I hesitated to mention them so soon.
But how to make the entire piece more smooth?
A nice suggestion, let me post something for consideration, though we can always edit prior to a final draft.
I'm feeling a bit ragged after a long hiatus from laboring, and will try to get something on the main page now (working tomorrow-they need it yesterday: right, John?)I may try composing something, yet I've been a bit distracted lately.
I'm glad we have such a creative group!

John Merryfield said...

Yes indeed...
'overcast morning' does sound better doesn't it.
Loved hearing about the hail, thunder and magnolias!

bandit said...

hokku:

morning overcast
the tiniest pebble
has a voice / John M.

wakiku:

your words mingle
with the sound of rain / Sandra S.

daisan: (candidates)

nearly unnoticed,
the shadows falling
on weathered wood

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Apologies--I tried to edit and accidentally removed that last one.

Here's my try at a daisan, and reasoning:

No season, and I'm thinking that since the hokku was nature and the waki human, it would be too soon to return to a nature verse. Sound is the hokku/waki link (voice/words) so move away from that; also maybe avoid anything that has to do with time of day ('morning' in the uchikoshi) or weather (overcast/rain).

A place or empathy link, then--


my fingers
probing for a key
above the cottage door

L

bandit said...

Oh, Linda, I do like the way you think...
I had concern about my 'shadows' returning to 'overcast', both possibly an outdoor reference, and regarding light, or daytime even.
Some may find the lustre and patina of 'weathered wood' attractive, yet the 'cottage', or cabin, in this neck of the woods at least, often refers to a familiar place, "up north", a place that holds fond memories, often for generations past. And, comparatively, your verse is more succinct, telling a little story, with a mystery attached. What will we find in the cabin? What memories, or treasured items of our history?
You've given me an idea; let me offer a suggestion and a subsequent verse as well.
'The key' again makes coded reference to our poet's labor here, what we seek in our art, and I'd like to emphasize that aspect, as well as offer a different reading to maintain variety of speech pattern:

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for the key

and then, subsequently:

the smell of weathered wood
what memories it holds

Of course, your other offers are welcome, people. Just an idea.
Also, there is the concern of our next link; the spring moon.

I'm off to the mines for a time.
Please consider these offerings, and feel free to edit or make your own. For your ease of consideration, and my own, here is my proposed text:

an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice

your words mingle
with the sound of rain

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for the key

the smell of weathered wood
what memories it holds

Linda Papanicolaou said...

rephrase of mine is fine, Willie. 'Cottage' is what came as the pome was given but 'cabin' would be fine too--it would send things in a slightly different direction. Another tweak that would also change direction slightly would be 'a key'.

I like your linking of the smell to memory--yes, that certainly is the feeling I have gotten when entering a musty old cabin. I just wonder if there's a way to say it without actually declaring it. Maybe some sense mixing. . .

the scent of memory
in weathered wood

sandra said...

Very nicely done, Willie and Linda.

I like Linda's suggested rewrite of v4 very much and I think it offers some good scope for v5.

Best,
Sandra

bandit said...

I agree Linda, it's a little over the top. I had a chance to realize this today.
Also, considering the moon verse can be a winter season-and don't we have other offers?

The 'driest' approach:

the smell of weathered wood

without saying it:

the -(memory)- in the smell
of weathered wood

or describe a memory:

remembering a smell
of weathered wood

It's hard not to say the word.

Indeed, Linda:

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key


the scent of memory
in weathered wood

The right piece of music I couldn't quite find...brief, yet fiied with promise.

I like 'cottage' and I think our average reader would recognize its prosody.

Next, a moon verse, winter or spring, though I think to continue this mood and tension, winter may be more appropriate.

I'd like to avoid the use of a season's name, using kigo instead. A shasei moment, perhaps? Or that moment of lucidity, sometimes, a little "stranger than fiction"?

It would be nice to then sum up the first side with something upbeat, an acknowledgement of our
emotion, yet ready to move on.

In a perfect world...

August 30, 2010 1:17 AM

bandit said...

I've asked Shinjuku Rollingstone to submit some moon verses, also.
Let's hope he may respond.

bandit said...

Considering verse # 5:

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key


the scent of memory
in weathered wood


as train wheels clatter,
a steely moon rides
on fresh fallen snow


Looking forward to your offers.

John Merryfield said...

I really like "the scent of memory"!

And... nice verse Willie!

I've been re-working this and I'm not sure....

verse #5
guiding
new arrivals to Paris
this snowy moon

sandra said...

Morning all,

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key


the scent of memory
in weathered wood


lifting free
from the naked tree,
tonight's moon


a line of birches
in the snow ...
and moonlight


Hmm, I'm happy for everyone to comment on these. I may need to exercise my writing muscle a little more!

sandra said...

by moonlight
reading the letter
edged with black


our argument
rises and fades into
a big, fat moon

bandit said...

Let's wait to see who else checks in for this moon verse. I see someone from Tokyo has visited the site...

I'll return this evening (about 12 hours)

bandit said...

Our submissions so far:



guiding
new arrivals to Paris
this snowy moon

John


lifting free
from the naked tree,
tonight's moon


a line of birches
in the snow ...
and moonlight


by moonlight
reading the letter
edged with black


our argument
rises and fades into
a big, fat moon

Sandra



train wheels clatter
as a steely moon rides
on fresh fallen snow

Willie

All comments welcome--

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Sorry for being late--I had trouble with this one. Finally decided that I liked the exclamatation that had been in Willie's original version of weathered wood. Aspect linking style, I think. It's a kind of linking that's useful as a focal point, bringing rhythm to a side.

This one doesn't have the upbeat feel I think you wanted, though...

how unforgiving
moonlight on a ring of ice
around the pond

L

Linda Papanicolaou said...

oop--I posted the wrong version. Rather than delete and post the comment, here. . .

how unforgiving
moonlight on a skin of ice
across the pond

L

bandit said...

Thanks, Linda,

Actually, I wished to continue the "mood", however we might define it, and then set up for the next page...

Yes, a tough position to fill, at least I found it so.

I like your verse, the 'unforgiving', it strikes a note in my sub-conscious, a nice composition in adversity.

And with that said, here is one more to "consider"

frozen moon - in my senile granddad’s pupil winter ;
in a hospital;

Shinjuku Rollingstone

Let's discuss this position's candidates briefly; I feel it important enough to do so in order to really make this first page strong enough to stand on it's own.

With as little analysis as possible,
I lean to Linda's verse, and I find Takke's verse intriguing-

Takke, may I suggest a slight edit?

a frozen moon,
my senile granddad
in hospital

Shinjuku Rollingstone

bandit said...

Or Takke may have meant the moon reflected:

from the hospital bed,
my senile granddad’s eye;
a frozen moon

Shinjuku Rollingstone

One concern for Jo (preface)composition-
No pro nouns should be used.

Would this still be acceptable?

I like the verse, assuming I have relayed Takke's intent.

Could we hear your preferences, please?

bandit said...

Ahh, my mind is slipping...
We should not discuss illness in the first movement, either.

Sorry, Takke, an intriguingly melancholy verse, filled with many inferences to our senior loved one's lives and destiny's.

We will make an invitation to you again. Please say you will accept.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Comments? Okay, here goes.

I've enjoyed seeing how everyone has re seasoned the moon-aa lot of nice imagery to choose from.

1) John's guiding/new arrivals to Paris/this snowy moon

This would be a case of whether you want to break rules/tradition by including foreign travel in the jo. But you know, trips are already an innovative form, so why not? If we go this way, and I think it's a delightful possibility, why not be hanged for a sheep as a lamb and have part of it in French?

bienvenu
à Paris
snowy moon

(Yeah, I know, I've changed the meaning a bit.)

2)Of Sandra's verses, I think that the funeral announcement (letter edged in black) would best be held for the ha.

The argument verse doesn't have a modifier to re-season the moon. As is, it's an autumn verse. Re what Willie said about pronouns, to a question I once asked about this, Moi and Norman asked, why not? But we've already had a second person waki and a first person daisan, and the daisan is uchikoshi for this verse so maybe better not.

The birches in the snow and the naked tree are both lovely images. Because the verse will segue from 'in weathered wood', I think I'd prefer 'lifting free' because it brings movement to the moon lifting itself above the wood.

3) Re Willie's train wheels clatter/as a steely moon rides/on fresh fallen snow, the travel question arises again, but that doesn't bother me because in the context of what we have up to now. The comparison of train wheels to a steely moon is intriguing. But the verse hasn't yet come together yet for me--feels like three separate images not yet interacting. Not sure what to suggest.

4) Takke's verse is powerful. Again, there's the problem of first person in the daisan, but I don't think you actually have to say 'my' to get the meaning. I also don't think that in this case you have to say 'senile'--somehow, 'frozen moon' conveys that, as does the double meaning of 'pupil'. I'd also leave the hospital bed out of any rewrites--it diffuses the punch.

frozen moon
in granddad's pupil
winter

Linda Papanicolaou said...

PS--my French teacher should rap my knuckles.

bienvenue
à Paris
snowy moon

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Me back again--

There are any number of ways this side might be rounded out. The following is one that occurs to me--

an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice

your words mingle
with the sound of rain

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key

the scent of memory
in weathered wood

frozen moon
in granddad's pupil
winter

train wheels clatter
on the fresh fallen snow

sandra said...

There's some nice thinking going on there, thanks Linda for your explanations.

I find "granddad" a little jerky, would "grandfather" flow better? (And you get a repeated "f" from L1.)

I'm not sure your rewrite of Willie's verse for the final stanza holds up, though. Would train wheels "clatter" on snow? Surely they would pass through snow relatively silently ... metal "clatters" on metal.

the hush of train wheels
through fresh fallen snow

the shush

the whisper

Anyhow, my next question is if we have "frozen" and "winter" in the preceding vrse, may we also have "snow" in the verse that follows?

Sorry, many questions, few answers...

bandit said...

an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice

your words mingle
with the sound of rain

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key

the scent of memory
in weathered wood

******************


a dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon


So much useful observation! Especially the explanation of first and second person; I may ask for assitance in labeling our chosen verses.

I'd like to go on at length, however, my ignorance would be apparent-better to enjoy the coming dawn.

Let me just say, without offense to anyone, this version of Takke's verse makes sense to me. It captures his intent without becoming dreary or overstated. I like the link of 'memory' to the 'gleam' in grandfather's eye, and continues the soul searching direction we've set out on.

I'd like to choose this version for our moon verse if their are no objections.

Linda's point of moving on (train wheels clatter) may lift us up on this journey, heartfelt rememberances intact, the better to bolster our quest of a new adventure, although a non season verse is called for next (#6), with another winter reference waiting in the final side.

John Merryfield said...

A couple of busy work days for me lately and I see that everyone here has been busy as well. Wow, wonderful discussion.

frozen moon
in granddad's eye
winter

Wonderful poem! A little clunky in renku.

dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon

Flows better, great image... although perhaps redundant using 'dullish' and 'frozen'

maybe...

hospital light
in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon ??

So many of the other verses work as well.

bienvenue
a' Paris
snowy moon

our argument
rises and fades into
a big, fat moon

??

Linda Papanicolaou said...

re Sandra's "Anyhow, my next question is if we have "frozen" and "winter" in the preceding vrse, may we also have "snow" in the verse that follows?"

Yes, you can. There's what's called 'persistence and avoidance'--you can continue something from one verse to the next (there may be a limit on how many verses you can keep it going though), but once you drop it, you should leave it to cool a while before coming back to it.

Actually, the problem here was the weather category of 'falling things'--rain in the waki and snow here. If memory serves, the avoidance gap would be that one should let about three verses go by before returning to precipitation. And also do a mental check whether the renku is going in circles or getting enough diversity.


L

Linda Papanicolaou said...

a dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon


I like this version, Willie. I think you've added layers in the meaning--shows that grandfather whatever his state still has some spunk. A good touch for the jo.

L

John Merryfield said...

Thank's Linda for the excellent analysis! I'm learning so much here and I'm excited to see where this poem's going. Some of the verse's are still blowing my mind.

bandit said...

yikes!

One last time: #5

in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon
a dullish gleam

and then, my candidate for #6:

no sound from the trees
but for a yearling's breath

Linda Papanicolaou said...

you want to go from 'wood' back to trees so soon?

L

bandit said...

Gee, and I was worried about sound-I wondered if you'd catch that.

I was hoping to see more candidates, actually.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I like yours, and I think you could solve the problem by swapping in 'grass'. Yearling food anyway.

L

John Merryfield said...

#6

windows rolled up
a/c on, muzak ??


raking a sand trap
as if it matters ??


visiting a mausoleum
to kill time ??

sleep is a dream
in a bottle ??


....sorry, I'll stop now

sandra said...

in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon
a dullish gleam

fish scales on the board,
a happy song on the radio


this way, then that,
today's daffodils


today's daffodils
wrapped in last week's news

bandit said...

Thanks Linda,

Yes, we got hung up on sound (voices) wood (trees), birth (newborn's became a yearling) and season (newborn - spring) and two beers with honey bunny during discussion that knocked me silly (I'm not the "stud" I used to be; please don't tell her!) and came back round to "trees" in my fuddle
to seek that ying/yang to the previous verse, as well as sum up and conclude the side with something life affirming-

Seeing as how I've hogged this first side, let me ask you this, my friends and team: what natural place exists in your piece of the world that meets this criteria? A field , marsh, mountain, stream...
what place do your yearling's reside?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I don't think you've hogged the first side, Willie. There are five of us for six verses and everyone's in with one already. The question is what kind of shape sabaki wants it to have.

Forgive me, but where's the 'newborn' that creates repetition with 'yearling'? At first I thought 'yearling' was spring, but then it occurred to me that no, it isn't a baby animal--it's merely a young animal, and 'calf' is listed as a year round topic in Higginson's Haiku World.

I'm learning from Moi and Norman that it's not the case that you can never return to something already touched upon--a renku is supposed to be like a mandala, encompassing the whole of experience, but to some extent the recurrence of certain things can be part of what makes it rise from checklist to poetry.

The only things it's necessary to be mindful of is 1) kannonbiraki (mirroring the leapover verse), and 2)repetition/avoidance spacing. I see a problem with wood to trees because of (1). Sound is three verses back, so technically not a problem, if you feel that returning to sound here would be desirable to give a cyclic feeling to the side.

Or, if you want the sixth verse to move straight on into the ha with less feeling chapter break, Sandra's fish scale verse works elegantly, I think. First, it's non-seasonal and includes our first animal topic (fish).

As a person link, it adds to the grandfather character an implication of fisherman, and there's an analogy of the fish scales on the board to the dullness in his eye. Yet there's a contented feeling feeling of life. With the radio, it recalls the sound theme with which the side began, and yet it cheerfully points us on to the future.

The more I think about it, the more I like Sandra's fish scales the best--I like the possibilities of where it might send the renku next.

L

Linda Papanicolaou said...

And speaking of "hogging", I feel like I'm the one who's been doing all the talking--so sorry. Re the yearling verse, yes, I think it's a non-seasonal animal topic, which fits well here. But "no sound" is starting to bother me. Maybe with 'voice' and 'words' up top, it's a matter of digging deeper into the image. "Stillness" instead of "no sound" came to me.

Also, maybe 'what place'isn't quite the right question, since both the previous verses have place: "in weathered wood"/"in grandfather's eye". How about a time link instead? Here's one that uses time to amplify my feeling that it's a cattle drive:

a stillness in the dawn
but for a yearling's breath

While we're at it, I also still like your train. Here's a try without the snow:

train wheels clatter
up a winding mountain pass


L

bandit said...

It's funny you should mention it,
but I had just considered 'dawn' in lieu of 'trees'. 'Stillness' takes the tone down to an acceptable level.

A cattle drive? Hee hee...

Someone had related an earlier version of Takke's tsukeku with death.

Sandra's 'fish scales' are a positive symbol, enforced by a 'happy radio', though we yet have the beginning of Ha followed by two spring verses to build on...

Given a preference, I would choose Linda's version of 'yearling'.

And thanks for your sensitive explanation and comments:
remember, in our vernacular here, it's often tongue-in-cheek.

Barring further discussion, shall we proceed?

bandit said...

Some verse in hand:

first day of school
looking up at the boy
whose voice has changed

swimming
the pool snake
and an only child

gathering clouds -
the magnolias
move just a little


lifting free
from the naked tree,

fish scales on the board,
a happy song on the radio

train wheel's clatter

sleep is a dream
in a bottle

sandra said...

Thanks for the positive feedback re fish-scales, guys.

If you're still dissatisfied boss, maybe you might consider a "mash-up":


the clatter of train wheels
from the neck of a bottle

(willie & john)


a galleon in a bottle
its flag grey with cobwebs

(john & linda)


moving just a little
the foam on the beer

(sandra & willie)


a clatter of bottles
as the log-train passes

(john & sandra)

(we have log trains going right along our waterfront - pleas to reroute the rail line fall on deaf ears - and lots of bars/restaurants along there too.)

Pardon my mental slip for submitting daffodil verses for this position - I didn't have the excuse of alcohol!

sandra said...

held together by cobwebs
the ship in the bottle

(linda & john)

John Merryfield said...

I can't take a shared credit on that last verse Sandra... That's a beauty!

bandit said...

Ha ha! The excuse of alchohol consumption-I like those daffodils,
sober or not!

I told my son to use this one-whoever is absent from the job may take the other's blame for a dissatisfactory performance, such as leaving early on a previous day.

It backfired on me this week past-they told him leave the 'old guy' at home, I was slowing things down.

Damn these whipper snappers...!

More great verses in hand!
I think I'm satisfied with the link of 'yearlings' though, it's the anticipatory nature of the verse for me- up here, that might be a deer or fawn, a young cougar, or a bear cub, a game fish even, setting out on a new endeavor.

With so many glacially formed lakes, ice fishing is a viable sport here, (I went once; started my coat on fire) but most folks
associate fishing with summer, going 'up north' to the lake cabin, etc.

Hmm, some of my motivations may seem a bit fishy...

Three lines, non-season; any topic is permissable in this side!

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Love this one, Sandra!

a galleon in a bottle
its flag grey with cobwebs

(john & linda)

off to think of offerings for v. 7 now. . .


L

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Okay, here are a bunch. Since we're now in the Ha, I was thinking more of a change of tone to start the side of abruptly with contrast to the stillness/yearling verse. I went to Yahoo news and knocked off a bunch of contemporary event topics.



life boats
and another oil rig goes
kaboom

spot on Leno
Bristol Palin
dancing with the stars

shoes and eggs
fly at a barricaded
bookstore

parting waves
to the news event
whose name was Earl


L

sandra said...

Oh well, news events:

over and over
the man on CCTV
runs for cover


showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas

Big earthquake in the South Island early y'day morning (7.1 and only 10km deep) hit our third-largest city hard.

Okay, other offerings:

later in the afternoon
the matador's cape
a darker colour


the bull's horn
just a whisker from
his femoral artery


(but maybe these aren't non-season? Hmm)

More later

John Merryfield said...

#7

lemonade stand
hand full of dreams
keep the change


being nobody
going nowhere
a white cloud


ok, news related.....

a republican
take over of the house
food fight!

sandra said...

Just for the heck of being the person with the 70th comment!

the house of bricks
tumbling down ... anyone
else smell wolf?

bandit said...

For sure, Linda, we do need to "up the ante" after such pastoral scenes.

Some interesting stories here:



shoes and eggs
fly at a barricaded
bookstore / Linda

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas / Sandra

later in the afternoon
the matador's cape
a darker colour / Sandra

Lemonade and peaks of the clouds could be construed as Summer, John.

Out of respect to the form, summer and winter, the "lesser" seasons, receive only two verses.

And I think I'm leaning to Libertarian...

Any other candidates, or right to discussion?

sandra said...

Hi Willie,

I think the "matador's cape" may exclude itself because there is a bullfighting season, generally April to September in Spain so arcs through spring/summer.

I'll leave it up to you and John and Linda, but thought I should point it out.

Thanks,
Sandra

Linda Papanicolaou said...

That matador verse is a gem, though, Sandra.

The batman pyjamas, too.

I think either of the two verses left standing link nicely to the yearling and it's a matter of sabaki style, whether you like a break or a segue between sides.

Another consideration: I think that the boy in pyjamas may be more durable as a verse--we'll still see the image long after it's forgotten that the NZ earthquake took place while we were writing. I tried to make the bookstore protest universal but being the author I don't have a feeling for how it will age.

L

bandit said...

I remember your comment, Linda, some time back about a side ending abruptly-I'm for the 'segue' method, if I have that right.

I haven't watched any news for awhile; I didn't even know who Earl was 'til this morning!

Some of these links are a bit unintelligible to me at first (a common problem for me this year past, immersed in the goings-on here) Though on an instinctual level, many of them ring true.
I especially find the boy in the batman pj's compelling. Something about that innocence of expression.

I really like the matador; hope we can place it seasonally, if we follow your explanation , Sandra.

What happened at the bookstore?

We still have time to consider other offers, of course...

Linda Papanicolaou said...

The bookstore? Ah, you haven't been watching the news, have you? Tony Blair, doggedly unrepentant about Iraq, did a book signing in Dublin.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

another one--current event, death, link yearling to the ages of the kid dying in Iraq/Afghanistan. A few years ago they were the ages of my own sons, now they're younger.

Viewers of the nightly PBS Newshour will recognize the words.


as soon as their names
and photographs become
available, six more . . .

John Merryfield said...

Love batman boy in his PJ's!

sandra said...

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone. Written in an instant, just as the master suggested!

Linda, your allusion to the war dead is very moving - 10 years and for what?

bandit said...

an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice

your words mingle
with the sound of rain

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key

the scent of memory
in weathered wood

in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon
a dullish gleam

stillness in the dawn
but for a yearling's breath

*****************

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas / Sandra

Shall we continue degachi? We're distributing the verses well.
And I do feel a certain like-mindedness...

# 7 could be non-season, though I see Spring's approach.

Should we determine a stanza with a subject of "place", or are we alright?

bandit said...

a stillness in the dawn
but for a yearling's breath


showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas

# 8

secure in the belief
gravity will set us free

Linda Papanicolaou said...

sorry about that--I forgot and posted three lines

to and fro the red breasts
building this year's nest

sandra said...

Both nice offerings - I notice that the main page, Willie, shows this position as non-season, yet you seemed to suggest that it might be spring?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

The coding is 'ns/sp ', which means a choice between non-seasonal and spring. Verse 10 is 'wi/sp lv'.

Which to go with was actually determined back in verses 5 and 6 ('ns/wi mn' and 'sp/ns' respectively). Willie opted for the second in verse 5, going for a winter moon rather than a spring verse. That set us on the alternate course for verses 6, 9 and 10.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I'll modify that a tad--actually, you could do a non-seasonal verse for v. 9, but then you'd need to clear room for a pair of spring verses--10 and 11 within the love sequence, probably.

sandra said...

Gosh, thanks Linda. I'll get my head around this one day, but I'm guessing not just yet :)

sandra said...

Oh, but then I'm still confused.

We're on position 8, right? And this is coded as "ns", isn't it?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Oh, good lord I got mixed up again--my apologies. I am in two other renku and I am having a terrible problem keeping straight where we are in each of them.
At least I see I did at least submit a two-line verse for this one.

Well, as a followup, there's actually a lot of wiggle room in these templates. In theory you could move spring up to this verse too--all you really need is one non-seasonal buffer verse between seasons and you have that with your #7.

sandra said...

Hey that's okay Linda, I just do as I'm told ... most of the time!

It's not great etiquette for me to submit to this, but it does help my writing muscle stay in shape so feel free to politely ignore:

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas

rousing the cab driver,
cathedral bells


from thorn to thorn
a spider's silk


watching it breath,
the tattooed dragon

bandit said...

Oh, geez, have I confused the setting?
My reference was to the flexibility afforded this side-if we take # 8, verbatim, we have two lines non=season.
Having used a winter option in Jo, then 9, 10, etc, would be spring. (if not for the fact we've changed the format slightly in past renku with JEC, and others, as you may recall.)
I haven't even read the candidates, I just noted your concern.
Let's regroup as necessary, allow John to respond, and I'll see you this eve (it's 7:20 am here.)
Oh, dear, did I see a tattoo?

KC is thinking about a tattoo-bamboo, for flexibility, or some such truck, I don't know. Maybe budo...

bandit said...

Sandra,

Don't worry about etiquette here, mate. After all, I figure we're all pals-

For our tattooed friend from the dojo:

tiger, dragon, snake
seek celestial power
man's form they forsake

He's in Afghanistan now...

John Merryfield said...

There's some wonderful verses from everyone for #8!

Here's a try....

a campfire giving birth
to angels and demons ??

sandra said...

Oh, my mistake with the dragon tattoo, not so much for your suggestion Willie (which didn't even cross my mind"), but for repeating the word "breath" from the yearling verse. Dear me, anyone would think I was a shingle short!

If it can be amended (assuming it isn't a backlink):

rippling through the pool,
a tattooed dragon

or

once upon a time
in a land far away ...


telling it again,
the war hero


giving the war hero
another glass of milk

Look forward to seeing how this one works out ...

bandit said...

stillness from the dawn
but for a yearling's breath

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjama's

..................

Giving the war hero
another glass of milk / s

rippling through the pool
a tattooed dragon / j

to and fro the red breasts
building this year's nest / l

**

in sight of a redbreast
clinging to a pine / l

to anticipate spring,
linkage, and a visual aspect perceived from many of our recent candidates, I propose this verse inspired by Linda.

A pine may be perceived as winter, though I refer to it's longevity, 1000 years) and fragility, such as Sandra's magnolia.

(I liked the tattoos, yet thought they might suffice for the upcoming love fest.)

Any thoughts or opinions on this selection, please?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I don't think 'pine' is winter, Willie. My copy of Haiku World says it's all year. HW calls 'robin' all spring, so I don't think it's a non seasonal verse. I'm not sure but I also think it would not unbalance things to start spring a verse early, or to lengthen spring to a run of three verses. I think I've heard Norman say that this kind of thing gives the renku character.

I like your edit.

John Merryfield said...

in sight of a redbreast
clinging to a pine

beautiful

bandit said...

I had the argument ready that robin's are here in Winter, blah blah blah...them are some crazy birds, man!

Let 'er rip- # 9! 3 lines, spring!

Aren't we all some crazy birds, though?

We have some luverly verse up our sleeve, also...

sandra said...

in sight of a redbreast
clinging to a pine / l

is the flower in her hair
real? a butterfly
probes the question

(Hmm, maybe this is "cut"?)


everywhere we look,
wild-flower bouquets tied
to radiator grills


dance music
on the radio and
in your eyes

John Merryfield said...

#9

surrounded
by the yellow dust
of pacifists


picking herbs
and thinking
of her mother


a wild pony
in his scope
reminds him of home


... Starting Friday morning, I'll be away on an expedition stand up paddling around Tahoe for 3-4. Will check back in when able. Have fun.

bandit said...

Oh, yes John, the 72 mile stand-up paddle!

http://www.firstgiving.com/johnmerryfield

Here's hoping for the wind at your back!

I am enamored of that 'yellow dust':

surrounded
by the yellow dust
of pacifists

Before you go, I was hoping for a hodge-podge of love verses from the gang, stream of consciousness sort of thing, that could be rearranged in any fashion; remember how we took those seemingly disparate items of love and made a series in 'The Oyster Midden'?

And now would be a good time to review our verses "up the sleeves", so to speak.

Our respective Honey Bunnies are good ones to seek advice from...

bandit said...

proposed:

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjama's / s


in sight of a redbreast
clinging to a pine / l

********

# 9:

engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of pacifists / j


# 10:

teasingly, a glimpse
of his/my dragon tattoo / ?

# 11:

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk / s

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I like the verses but a couple of reservations--

1) re #10 "a glimpse" has "in sight of" in #8 its uchikoshi

2) I've looked at the whole poem. From the waki "your words mingle" to #11 "she offers the war hero" feels like a very long stretch between active tense verbs. I wonder if there's a way to strengthen the syntax by rephrasing one of the interim verses as a simple declarative construction.

bandit said...

"I like the verses but a couple of reservations--

1) re #10 "a glimpse" has "in sight of" in #8 its uchikoshi.

2) I've looked at the whole poem. From the waki "your words mingle" to #11 "she offers the war hero" feels like a very long stretch between active tense verbs. I wonder if there's a way to strengthen the syntax by rephrasing one of the interim verses as a simple declarative construction."



an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice

your words mingle
with the sound of rain

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key

the scent of memory
in weathered wood

in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon
a dullish gleam

a stillness in the dawn
but for a yearling's breath

(or: but for a yearling's breath
a stillness in the dawn - Willie)


*********

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjama's / s


in sight of a red breast
clinging to a pine / l

(or: high above, a red breast
clings to the pine - Willie)



# 9: spring

engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of pacifists / j


# 10: love

teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo / ?

# 11: love

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk

I'm wondering what else could we do?

sandra said...

Morning all,

As it stands, we have 3 lines beginning with the word "in" (one of them is a second line), is that a problem?

If it is something to be aware of, Willie's suggested reworking of the robin verse fixes that (if Linda's agreeable).

engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of pacifists / j

what is the "yellow dust of pacifists", do you think? Around here our yellow dust in spring is pine pollen, which (if that is what others think) causes a problem in the poem. I was the author of the original dragon tattoo verse, and might suggest these alternatives:

sleeping beside me
a fire-breathing dragon

the dragon on your back,
under my hands

And for position 11 I would like to re-offer:


dance music
on the radio,
in his eyes

As it is, you are suggesting two of my verses consecutively (dragon and glass of milk), is that okay?

sandra said...

Also, not sure how the dragon links to the pacifists.

sandra said...

And then, as I was walking home just now in the rain, it occured to me that the pollen is the link. Doh!

Sorry for my ineptitude - I love the challenge and fun in writing linked verse, I'm just not much good at keeping all the parameters in mind!

bandit said...

Additionally, yellow dust is a kigo for spring, referring to pollen across the water from China - figure that one in.

i saw your point of the repetition of 'in'...

Plus, I wanted to mention the end of Jo (# 6) sounds "Westernized" somehow, I feel a bump there.

And this feeling may refer to Linda's observation of a lack of action in the verses.

Sorry, but I didn't mean to be abrupt earlier (time constraints forced me to brief)

I'm glad we have more discussion...

To create a more active voice may I suggest:



an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice

your words mingle
with the sound of rain

above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key

** the scent of memory
lies in weathered wood

in grandfather's eye
the frozen moon
a dullish gleam

** but for a yearling's breath
a stillness holds the dawn


*********

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjama's / s


** high above, a red breast
clings to the pine / l



# 9: spring

engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of pacifists / j


# 10: love

teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo / s

# 11: love

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk

Verses 10 and 11 combined just kill me - as John Carlin said, "My brain is laughing its ass off."

There is no rule stating two consecutive verses by one author is forbidden.

Also, I was still seeking more ideas to round out the love section.

I'd like to hear more on the subject of verb usage. Have we done enough to allow the poem to build to its conclusion, or should we do more?

I need to look at it on the page...

bandit said...

And now that I have a view of these candidates together, I note 'war hero' with uchikoshi of "pacifists'. The present line-up as proposed has a haikai feel that I'd like to retain.

Still, some more love verses are in order then, anything and everything that comes to mind.

sandra said...

showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas /s


high above, a red breast
clings to a pine /l


engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of pacifists /j


I'm not sure what John is driving at with "pacifists" in this verse (altho' I like it), but would it work with another word?

businessmen? book-sellers? carpenters?

(The first one may be a non-starter :) but the other 2 may work, I rather like "carpenters".)


afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk

OR
we examine changes to "war hero".

her/the farm boy? the ploughman?

change the line breaks to:

afterwards
she offers another
glass of milk

Is this any help, Willie?

I look forward to hearing from Linda when she has the chance, too.

bandit said...

For me, both lines are unexpected, i.e., the subjects 'pacifists' and 'war hero'.
Either one an icon on it's own, placed in a near ridiculous situation - haikai!
I'm in no rush to eliminate them!
We could work around them; two more love verses are possible in this set, a challenge really, seeing as how so many love sections are just glossed over with only two specific stanzas in other renku I've read.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Interesting thoughts re 'pacifists' and 'war hero'--I hadn't caught that one. I ask myself is it kannonbiraki, and I suppose technically it is. But the larger and more important question is whether it feels like it's moving the renku backwards, or if there's forward development.

Could go either way, I suppose. The offering of a glass of milk reinforces pacifism--a little like sticking a flower down the rifle bore--but somehow it feels to me that it's more in the category of what Moi Richards would call "judicious repetition". IE, a bit of emphasis that gathers strength before propelling the renku forward.

Provided of course we work with rather than merely around them. How interesting a prospect--judicious kannonbiraki.

If you change your mind later, it should probably be possible to find another word for 'pacifists' that says the same thing without really saying it.

IOW I like it.

bandit said...

Me, too. And I like your thoughts of "a flower stuck in a rifle bore".

I only mention the possibility for technical reasons. I've put the question to an "authority", and await an opinion.

I suppose 'pacifists' could relate to 'yellow', perhaps as in "cowardice", but that could be a stretch.

More interesting to me is the China reference held in the kigo 'yellow dust', (preceded by a 'red' breast) followed by a tongue-in-cheek mention of 'dragon tattoo', and then the 'war hero', all subliminal reference to old (and new) American paranoia.

if necessary, I'd fill the spaces out between these references just to maintain them.

From an admittedly quiet Jo section, the stanzas seem to advance in the fashion of a wave building higher, which, I believe, may be the desired effect we seek.

I'm still seeking more "off hand" love verses that we might bravely cobble together for this section, 'cause, after all, ain't love grand?

bandit said...

Oh, and I should ask if the edits I've put forth previously aid in creating a more active voice, hopefully avoiding that Western "romanticism" I may have been erringly guiding us into?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I think that the dust kigo refers to the wind blowing stuff over from the deserts of northern China in Spring, but if you don't get that reference, 'yellow dust' could be pollen. As in "where have all the flowers gone". Nice.

The verb you put in the red breast verse does it for me, although I might offer one more tweak for it--simply

above, a red breast
clings to a pine

Without "high", I have a brief glimpse of the child in pyjamas lifted up by his mother, before the second line turns it. Adds a bit of layer and complexity.

For me, at least--if it doesn't do that for you, disregard.

sandra said...

Thanks so much for that discussion you two, illuminating.

bandit said...

I hear that, Slowhand.

Ruminating...

bandit said...

Here's a rough up of a sequence:

# 7: ns
showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjama's / s

# 8: spring

above, a red breast
clings to the pine / l

# 9: spring

engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of pacifists / j


# 10: love

teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo / s

# 11: love

quick out the back
to the morning train's
smoke and moan / w


# 12: love

passing a bottle,
they talked about their dreams / j

#13: love

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk / s


I'd like to hear what you think...

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I like it--nifty way to keep the pacifists and the war hero, and a cool love sequence.

sandra said...

Yes, that's good Willie, well done.

bandit said...

Let's try these edits, and I'll post it. (We can still come back for changes)

..."smoke and clatter"


"...passing the bottle,
they spoke of their dreams"

on to autumn then?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Okay, autumn short--it's been a while since we've had nature, so let me lead us out of the house and into the garden (link: white milk to black ink):

ink caps sprout in clusters
by the rain wet path

Linda Papanicolaou said...

oops wait--we had rain. Way back but still...

ink caps sprout in clusters
by the garden path

John Merryfield said...

Hello, I'm back again and see that everyone's been busy. It will take me a minute to get back up to speed and I love what I'm seeing here. Exciting to read...

bandit said...

Hokku: mùa hè; nơi; vườn khô; John

an overcast morning một buổi sáng u ám
the tiniest pebble những viên sỏi nhỏ nhất
has a voice có một giọng nói

Wakiku: summer; 2nd person; rain; Sandra Wakiku: mùa hè; 2 người; mưa; Sandra

your words mingle lời nói của mingle
with the sound of rain với những âm thanh của mưa

Daisan: non-season; first person; cottage, key; Linda Daisan: không mùa; người đầu tiên; tiểu thủ, trọng điểm; Linda

above the cottage door, phía trên cửa tiểu,
my fingers probing thăm dò ngón tay của tôi
for a key cho một phím

Thought you might enjoy a Vietnamese translation...

Finally ate at the Saigon Cafe up the street - some delicious Spring rolls!

How's the Lake, John? Are your arms tired!?

John Merryfield said...

Not too tired to write

bandit said...

ink caps sprout in clusters
by the garden path / Linda

Linda, would you consider an alternative to 'garden path'?

"meadow's path"

"down the coppice path"

"shepard's path" (human ref.)

I was thinking of a path more worn or wild.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I had thought of 'garden path' as in someone leading one down it, so part of the link to the previous verse, but milk to ink is robust enough to work with any other kind of path, Willie. Sabaki choice of what you want. They're mushrooms, though. Do they grow out in the open of a meadow?

Re 'shepherd's path' and getting some human connection into it, though, consider my count: out of fourteen verses so far we have only four that are non-human.

My favorite would be

ink caps sprout in clusters
along the coppice path

Coppice sound like a good mushroomy habitat and I like the alliteration.

John Merryfield said...

#14

still handsome and proud
the quail family missing one


inducing sleep
alternating bell crickets

bandit said...

Thanks, Linda and John!

I'd like to go with Linda, 'down the ccppice path', (are those mushrooms edible?)

True, the 'shepard' is too familiar thus far, regarding human
interaction.

I'd thought of the ink caps in the coppice as an analogy of sorts:

'ink..sprout' as the renjin's effort to write in a fashion that many have plyed before, harvesting from the same trees, nurtured and reused, sometimes for hundreds of years, ('the coppice'), leading us down an evolving, but well used path.

Alliteration never hurt one, either.

Well, and look at that; even up on each author's candidates used.

Nothing to do for it but go to the moon, I think...

bandit said...

Hi Willie,

I had a look at the blog...nice going.

I think I've come up with about all that I can, so if any of these fits, fine (but if none do, fine too) One is by my old mate, Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I think his copyright has run out and anyway I don't think he'd mind me rearranging his line breaks a tad...I haven't murdered his poem.

#13: love; non-season; Sandra

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk

(# 14) autumn:

ink caps sprout in clusters
by the garden path / Linda

eave-drop icicles
quietly shining
to the quiet moon

Samuel Taylor Coleridge (adapted from ‘Frost at Midnight’)

high above
the snow-capped mountains
clouds release the moon

lorin ford (though I have this with 'the airport control tower' for L2 published as a haiku in paper wasp, just in case that's relevant. Up to you.)

snow-capped mountains
or no snow-capped mountains
it's the autumn moon

lorin ford .... Do you like the argumentative tone?

Snow as a topic for haiku, mannenyuki まんねんゆき / 万年雪 "eternal snow", snow-capped mountains

stained with fruit
from a goblin market
the swollen moon

lorin

Ya ever read Christina Rossetti's rather Freudian poem, 'Goblin Market'?

http://theotherpages.org/poems/roset01.html

anyway, let me know...?

John Merryfield said...

#15

three strings
play the mood
of a tremulant moon

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Coleridge is beautiful but I see kannonbiraki from the white of the snow to black of the ink to the white of milk.

I like John's. I'd rather keep such an important verse as moon within the people who are actually writing this one.

bandit said...

I hear that.

I am struggling to complete a verse for this position. Many distractions at the moment.

Let's reconvene this evening (or later, as the case may be)and see what we come up with.

bandit said...

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk / Sandra

ink caps sprout in cluster
down the coppice path / Linda

#15

under the moon
even the smallest creatures
gather in the night

as though the days
are without end
under the harvest moon

Let's wait for the others; Linda, please don't feel as though you're excluded from this position.

sandra said...

big orange moon,
a flight of ducks
and us in a blue car


up the ladder
picking nashi,
picking the moon

sandra said...

clouds now and then
giving us relief
from moon-viewing

- Matsuo Basho

harvest moon,
and mist creeping
over the water

- Hattori Ransetsu


harvest moon,
on the bamboo mat
pine-tree shadows

- Enomoto Kikaku


will there be any
not wielding his brush?
The moon tonight

- Uejima Onitsura :)


over the door-frame
creeps the ivy;
evening moon

- Basho (haven't checked that ivy is autumn, but it comes in the midst of an autumn sequence)

From the Penguin Book of Japanese Verse (1964) with some minor alterations by me!

sandra said...

Ah, yes. From your sajiki link, ivy is an all-autumn word.

bandit said...

Ever feel like you're between a rock and a hard place? A situation of my own making, clearly.

But, we continue...

As ever before, I think we've received all our invited candidates ( i assume you'll take a pass, Linda, unless we here from you this morning)

*******

afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk / Sandra

ink caps sprout in cluster
down the coppice path / Linda


# 15:


eave-drop icicles
quietly shining
to the quiet moon

Samuel Taylor Coleridge (adapted from ‘Frost at Midnight’)

high above
the snow-capped mountains
clouds release the moon

snow-capped mountains
or no snow-capped mountains
it's the autumn moon

stained with fruit
from a goblin market
the swollen moon

Lorin


# 15

three strings
play the mood
of a tremulant moon

John


# 15

big orange moon,
a flight of ducks
and us in a blue car


up the ladder
picking nashi,
picking the moon

Sandra

# 15

under the moon
even the smallest creatures
gather in the night

as though the days
are without end
under the harvest moon


Willie

*******

I have to send an e-mail, and then I will return.

bandit said...

such a grey dawn
I await tonight's moon
to show me the way

Compared to some other renku by correspondence, I think we've been moving along at a fairly brisk pace. With that in mind, and the "green-ness", sometimes heavy-handed, that I offer as an inexperienced sabaki, I apologise for any stress I may have caused our participants and guests.

As I learn from doing (mistakes?) I think it's time for me to step back a little and let the poem flow where it may, with the desired effect of the renku/poets
proceeding with a life of it's/their own.

I'll begin with my comments, as well as yours, on all submissions combined for this verse. Now let's get cracking, we've a deadline to meet! (Sorry, I just can't help myself!)

Of Lorin's submissions, we have a back story on those mountains. Amusing, but I guess you had to be there.


eave-drop icicles
quietly shining
to the quiet moon

A bit too wintry for me, and the repetition of quiet throws me off some.

high above
the snow-capped mountains
clouds release the moon

Of the two 'mountain' verses, the latter is more an inside joke that may not be understood by all readers.
The former (above) contains 'high above' in L1, a regression to a previous verse, and a reference to clouds and moon, which I've read a lot of lately.

Lorin and I correspond fairly frequently; if not for an overwhelming prior committment, she would be part of this initial group. Add the fact she's been stricken with the proverbial Spring doozy of a flu, and I don't envy her suffering right now. She has stated that she may yet withdraw any offerings: Let's hope not.

I offered a rewrite, but as she rightly pointed out, that verse was "ponderous" and not in her voice.

stained with fruit
from a goblin market
the swollen moon

A very interesting scene here, creative, and a reference to past literature, yet, in my stupor, I have trouble relating a link to the previous stanza. Help me out if you can.


three strings
play the mood
of a tremulant moon

I like writing with John, he always sets me to thinking. Again, I have a little trouble with linkage, the brevity of length in relation to short verses, yet I
find the idea extremely attractive and fresh. As with the previous selection, kigo is simply stated as 'moon'.


big orange moon,
a flight of ducks
and us in a blue car


up the ladder
picking nashi,
picking the moon

I like the humor in this verse. I enjoyed the colors , though we've had a few prior; still, we haven't exhausted the spectrum. I've noticed the geese are
on the move here in my part of the world, too, as in this scene.

The 'ladder' progresses fittingly from a close-up of the ground and it's flora to climbing to a comparison of a bigger picture. I like the action, and a
subtly stated desire to pick the moon and all its inherent mystery, a centuries old proposition. First time I've heard of nashi, also, an autumn kigo, I believe,
and it sustains the idea of humanity's hunger for knowledge. The technique of the verbs repetition I've seen before, and the verse is only twelve syllables, though the comma breaks add to the reading and the dramatic effect.

I would choose 'up the ladder'.

What are your thoughts, please?

bandit said...

Oops, I haven't addressed the "ancient" verses that Sandra put up. Frankly, I don't know how to handle those.
I do like Onitsura: just have a look at this site's banner.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Oh, I didn't know the name "nashi". Exquisite verse.

L

sandra said...

Thanks guys. I sometimes forget that I'm on the other side of the world to you all ....

Nashi is an autumn fruit, sometimes also known in English as "Asian pear". It's a kind-of cross between an apple and a pear. It's round with a pale golden skin, ivory white flesh without much taste and very juicy.

Pyrus pyrifolia, I've just learned from Wikipedia, so please go to the link to read more and see a picture of the fruit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_pyrifolia
ナシ

Best wishes,
Sandra

PS: I put the older verses up mostly just for a smile and maybe to encourage us along.

bandit said...

I've seen neither hide nor hair of John - my guess is his plate's full today.

Nothing for it but verse # 16, autumn, I suppose...the end of a side, the beginning of our finale.

I'm sure it will be memorable.

John Merryfield said...

Wonderful au/ moon selection Willie! I just can't get Sandra's image out of my head. Nice one.

#16

contemplating the brevity
of a goby


too thin skinned
the big chill is coming

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I'm at the Yuki Teikei conference at Asilomar--Maggie Chula speaking today, renku sessions tonight. But there's a hot spot in the lodge, so I can keep in touch. I'll be back anon with some ideas to link to the pear tree.

bandit said...

ink caps sprout in clusters
down the coppice path / Linda


up the ladder,
picking nashi,
picking the moon / Sandra

# 16

a paper chrysanthemum
found in the attic


a paper chrysanthemum
pressed between the pages


a paper chrysanthemum
falls from the pages

a paper mum
falls from the pages

a paper mum
between the pages

sandra said...

I like the image, Willie. Very nice.

bandit said...

Linda may be having a bit of trouble finding a place suitable for sending messages from the Asilomar conference center - sounds a like a full schedule, also.

Let's try again in 5 or 6 hours; see you then.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I'm here. Back home from a great weekend. Haiku, haibun, haiga and renku writing last night. Always a supercharge going to the conference at Asilomar.

I like the chrysanthemum--paper is a nice twist on the expected--but I haven't quite worked out in my own mind what to think of line 2. Finding it in the attic seems a little obvious as a link to up in the tree with a ladder. On the other hand, I wonder if a paper flower like that could press flat enough to slip into a book without ruining the spine. The problem for me is that I think of paper flowers as more 3-d sculpture. Or is this meant to be a flat cutout paper? Maybe use a bit of specialty vocabulary, such as "kiri-e" (those Japanese stencil cuts?

a kiri-e chrysanthemum
falls from the pages

Or if you don't want vocabulary right after 'nashi'

a cut paper chrysanthemum
falls from the pages

???

John Merryfield said...

Willie,I really like the chrysanthemum image found in the attic..... but also Linda's change "falling from the pages" links so nicely with the falling nashi fruit, or in my case, a painter falling off his ladder :)

bandit said...

I've had a paper chrysanthemun in mind for some time.

I played with the idea, shortening to 'mum' to accomodate the length of position, and settled for the paper mum falling for linkage. I'm glad someone agrees; I liked the idea of falling 'from the pages' in this position, so close to starting a new page...a sub-conscious stroke of luck. I think the verse provides excellent continuity to the next side.

If you're OK with "falling" vs 'falls', I'm OK, too. Let me know a preference...

I didn't want to lobby for this verse, though I thought it fit well.

I considered 3-D vs flat, and thought the reader should decide, mostly to maintain brevity.

Things I learned along the way:

a mudskipper is a goby (like your verse, John!)

The Chrysanthemum Festival, Chinese in its origin, occurs on the 9th day of the 9th month, late fall, and is held to "calm" the yang energy of the day-9, as opposed to 6, is too much yang, or male energy. Some consider the day to be evil!

Often people will climb to certain heights to avoid the bad vibes.

The Chrysanthemum is chosen for its attributes, which are...is this a multiple choice quiz?

The Imperial Japanese Chrysanthemum symbol has 16 petals.

OK, I get a C+.

Maybe some more yin is called for at this juncture?

I'll put up a rough version until we do the punchlist, or take suggestions.

(Just a note: I only now noticed we have two verses beginning with 'above', though they are well separated)

If everyone's satisfied with that plan, then let's begin our final side. I'm excited about that!

I do remember a sabaki mentioning that the final stanzas were more effective if written without ambiguity. Also, that they should proceed with vigor to almost the end.

Let's see what happens.

John Merryfield said...

#17

emptied of the garden snail
the shell, makes the sound
of the ocean

Too long? sound already referenced?

the lake
at its natural rim
nothing left to do

Linda Papanicolaou said...

effective link, Willie.

I like your offering, John. The zoom out is very effective when I picture it as Tahoe rather than just a generic lake.

sandra said...

Might I ask about the link between the lake and the paper flower?
It might be that after 4 days of gales (and more to come) that I'm just not seeing what's in front of me ...

Thanks.

John Merryfield said...

Yes, the feeling I get from Willie's verse:
a paper mum
falls from the pages
...is that there is an abundance of life and yet there is stillness and reflection, so I'm trying to capture the stillness of a lake that has nowhere to go. Its no longer overflowing, rushing away from itself. Perhaps the viewer, by the side of the lake, is also experiencing that stillness. That's the link I'm associating, but this doesn't speak to worthiness of the verse itself. Can't say I'm thrilled with alot of what I'm writing these days. Guess its been a long work season. Although, I'm enjoying the heck out of this Triparshva!

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Let me just say what Patricia Machmiller told us at the YT renku session on Sat night: Don't consciously try to link. If you're there with the renku, the link will be there.

It might be a tad early in the last side to go to quietude, but the link from mum to lake is certainly there. It's a scent link.

sandra said...

Okay, now you will need to explain that to me too.

Paper + water = scent!!??

Thanks. This is all taking me new places.

bandit said...

Scent? A statement of similar meaning, or intent, or emotion?

Feeling...yin, we've just had falling, though we don't want to counter with a narrative of rising things; we don't want a "narrative" at all.

John nails one, then I ask him for more - like an insatiably needy client.

I'd like to hold that one up my sleeve for a time, but only to follow this vague "map" I have in my head wherein the directions, written and rewritten over ages, say to "charge boldly" to the finish.

Although , Susumu sensei once wrote to me to learn the rules, then how to "ignore the rules".

Hmm, John, could you try again, though with a verse with more energy? Yang? heh heh heh...

For our part, can we imagine, or devise, or just intuit a link to the 'lake' that holds the energy we seek?

I need to read this in sequence again, and hear what others think.

...an 'empty' shell...yet 'full' of energy -balance- can the snail be implied?

John Merryfield said...

10-4 Boss. May have some time later today for this effort. Others have any ideas?

John Merryfield said...

um... a little yin and yang for ya...

quiet
fishing villagers
talk of an angry sea

fishing villagers
nervous talk
of an angry sea

bandit said...

How about that empty shell? Is it worth toying with?


Yeah, John, I think everyone likes the lake, too - I do.

It just, flows.

Whaddya think guys?

sandra said...

Well, if you're looking for vigour in the start of the new side, you haven't found it yet ... in my opinion, anyway.

the lake is good for L1 & 2, so maybe instead of a downbeat ending, John could try some alternatives there.

the lake
at its natural rim


some turbulence, perhaps, a decision made, an argument started/resolved ...

the beat of a hammer; I sharpen the saw/axe; music from the saw

.. or turn it round and try for a new L1

sharpening the axe,
the lake
at its natural rim

(Lac La Hache in Canada, camped there. nb, means Axe Lake.)

Tomahawk may be too long.

a canoe/ stand-up paddler/ ...

possibilities there, I think.

Good luck, John. Your writing is very different to mine so I'm always interested to see where you take an idea. The ride is never dull!

best wishes,
Sandra

sandra said...

Oh, and beavers, eh?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

"sandra said...
Okay, now you will need to explain that to me too.

Paper + water = scent!!??

..."


Scent linking is ineffible. I think I might explain this a couple of ways. According to the styles of linking developed by Basho's disciples, there is one kind of linking called "sono ba" where the tsukeku (current verse--here, the lake) provides or amplifies a sense of place for the maeku (previous verse--the mums).

I see that kind of link here as a kind of zoom-out: the paper mum that falls from the pages must have been something precious to be kept in a book. That the reader has let the book go slack so this bookmark falls out indicates distraction, perhaps by something more important.

The lake verse provides the setting--the reader has perhaps taken the book on an outing, has been reading it, and at this moment there's been a greater AHA--the lake at its natural rim: as if some question or realization has been answered.

So that's why I say the link is there. The question remains, as I think Willie says, though, whether one wants to move to tranquility and resolution this early in the kyu.

Beautiful verse, any way you take it, though.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I'll follow up and say that the first two lines are the link to the mum verse; the only problem is line 3, "nothing left to do" when in fact there are 5 more verses to come.

Maybe, rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater, just work with that third line?

John Merryfield said...

Hey nice Sandra!

sharpening the axe
the lake
at its natural rim

Yang heat in this verse-
Also, I love the name of the Canadian lake....

oh... in fact, Lake Tahoe is known to the Washoe Indians as "Lake of the Sky"....

lake of the sky
teetering
at its natural rim

Whether used here or not... its a nice image.

sandra said...

Thanks for the explanation Linda, it takes me a while sometimes to grab (and understand) the many concepts that swirl through renku.

And well done, John, with "lake of the sky", glad I could help.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I think that introducing sky to the imagery gives the vigor you're looking for, and I also think that there's a completeness the image of lake rim, water below and sky above. Personally, I wouldn't want to see anything more added to it, just a fleshing out to three lines by digging more into the is-ness of what's there.

I don't think there's any one way to do it, but here's a try only by way of example--

cloudless sky
and the wide blue lake
at its natural rim

bandit said...

I saw a news story last night how White Bear Lake (suburban: 12 miles north of St. Paul) is down 10 or 12 feet. The homeowners on the shoreline are inconsolable.

I worked on an $8 mil shack on that puppy once. You know what? The lake will rise again. (as for the old town itself, it has become nauseatingly, ineffably, "quaint")

'the lake at its natural rim', another of John's intuitive, zen statements.

'nothing left to do', of course, a beautifully stated action/non-action in itself, yet we we strive for an Oct. 1 deadline (hee-hee, it's times like these that I'd say to the crew, "10 minutes of light left? Shit - time enough for a smoke"), which ain't no big deal, let's just write this bad boy.

No, no , no, the terms of good renku that have been demonstrated to me are a deliberatly strong finish -the renku wave builds and finally crashes ashore, followed by a summation of its journey - ageku. Crudely put...

Let's create tension:

astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim / john

Ja?

bandit said...

We need moon poems over next door.
Any volunteers?

John Merryfield said...

Both Linda's and Willie's verses are wonderful. I must say, Linda's captures the sky mind quality (Tibeten Buddhists call it Dzochen).... that awareness that our true nature is vast and empty. It is quite a moment when that is realized! The equilibrium of the lake at its natural rim is a nice image. Astir! I like that too! Deadline!

bandit said...

Can we maintain the version with your original line?

I like the pace of 'astir', for the mystery and tension it holds for the verses to follow, plus L2 creating such a dramatic pause.

You said it, buddy, equilibrium.

astir/natural - yang/yin

Whoo! Our second winter verse to follow.

sandra said...

astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim / john


busy with footprints
last night's snow


piling up the snowballs
the kid in the khaki hat


poking my tongue out
and humming the snowflake song


poking my tongue out
to test Barney's theory

Yeah well, head full of cold. May try again later.

bandit said...

What's Barney's theory!?

You're talkin' about the purple dinosaur, aren't ya?

sandra said...

Yeah, the purple dinosaur - told you my head was stuffed (up). Ha!

It's the song, part of which goes: If all the snowflakes were candy bars and milkshakes, oh what a snow that would be, standing outside, with our mouths open wide, (make the sound with mouth open) uhh, uuh-uh, uhu-hu etc.

There's bound to be a YouTube version ...

bandit said...

Well, don't that beat all!

For some reason, I'm charmed...

Linda Papanicolaou said...

astir in its depths?

Sandra's footprints and Barney offerings to link?

I am reminded that deep in Tahoe there is supposed to be a Loch Ness monster;-G

bandit said...

I asked around...

Too out of place? Presumptuous?

Loch Ness!? I thought maybe spring fed (lots of those here), or most of all a big sturgeon.

Ya'll got Muskies?

Seriously, what do you think?

I didn't want to change John's line if I could help it.

bandit said...

OK, please remember, all comments are appreciated.

Now then, how about our winter verse?

Sandra's mention of Barney makes me laugh, especially considering the last time I heard his name was in relation to an insult where a guy got pushed out a window on a construction job.


Something to do with the color purple and a subsequent fat lip and broken clavicle...hilarious stuff! I have such fond memories of those days.

Lest I hear other offers, I could seriously consider the Barney verse
sheerly for the picture of Barney and company singing, tongues and limbs flailing, in relation to so serious a matter as an ancient lake astir with spring waters and tao parables.

Yes, but what's the link...?

Any other ideas, please?

sandra said...

The link between the Barney verse and the lake is water. Of course, you have to know the (unfortunately, very hummable) Barney song to make that link so that may be a problem.

This was another of my offerings which is more overt:

poking my tongue out
and humming the snowflake song


or

sticking my tongue out
and humming the snowflake song

or

sticking my tongue out
for the milky flakes

(which kind of combines the two).

bandit said...

Thanks, Sandra!

Looked for Barney briefly on youtube - I'm still chuckling.

I think I've caught everyone sleeping - I mean, I'm two hours earlier than the West coast.

I'm brewing coffee. 36 hours of rain is forecast from over the mountains and across the plains
to a band of storms right through the state. Boy, I can't wait!

Linda Papanicolaou said...

sticking my tongue out
and humming the snowflake song


This is the one I like. Lake to snowflake (lake effect), though there's a kannonbiraki problem--it and the uchikoshi both would have things falling, which is actually a topic category. Maybe, then

sticking my tongue out
and humming the Barney song


L

bandit said...

Bingo! Nice job!

one more non-season?

John Merryfield said...

Oh yeah... I'm loving the Barney thread! Another Barney reference I can add to our discussion... (by the way, how did we go from Dzogchen to Barney?!) As a surfer here in California, if you saw a non local, non surfer, in the water trying to catch waves in big conditions, you would say, "look out for the Barney"! Originated in the sixties.

I'll work on a N/S verse today.

bandit said...

While Barney is still on our mind, (and the song is indelibly etched in Sandra's psyche) a consideration for line length:

my tongue stuck out,
humming the Barney song

"sticking" does seems more a part of the vernacular. I'm just seeking advice/preferences before we do our review.

sandra said...

Morning all.

You may be right about "sticking" as opposed to "stuck out" being vernacular.

Here in New Zealand we are quite used to "sticking" our tongues out - or having tongues stuck out at us - as it forms part of the Maori culture, now seen primarily in performance art, mostly haka (war dance) but also by women during waiata (song).

"The accurate weapons use, strong movements, facial contortions and the glaring (pukana) eyes of a performer served to distract or intimidate a potential enemy. The hands, feet, legs, body, voice, tongue and eyes all combine to play their part in conveying the fullness and meaning of the words in the accompanying chant. The use of the tongue is for intimidation and distraction."

Not quite Barney land but it goes some to way explaining my choice of the word "sticking".

The poking tongue features throughout Polynesian cultures. Here's a link to a video of an All Black haka, and you'll see poking tongues.

This haka is a new one, specially written for the All Blacks (our national rugby team) and is being performed to/at an Australian team. It proved to be controversial and hasn't been used much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQeHErp42CY&feature=related

These days, the haka is generally led by a Maori member of the team, whether captain or not, but has also been led by Paheka (European) and Samoan members of the team. The All Black team also includes players of Fijian and Tongan ethnicity, all countries that have their own "war dances".

Sorry to rabbit on, must be the cold, thought it might interesting. :)

John Merryfield said...

#19

for the love of God
the hermit
has a change of heart


with one wave
a turtle
learns The Way

Linda Papanicolaou said...

I love the Barney verse, but now that I see it there and realize it was supposed to be a winter verse, I wonder if it really is.

Okay, Barneys surfing, and my sons talk about Barneys skiing. Are we rationalizing or is it really enough of a winter verse (though I'd hate to change it)?

bandit said...

Rationalizing? Moi? Let's not go there...

May I suggest this "form"?:

sticking our tongues out(,)
(for) snowflakes and Barney's song

By the way, Sandra, some Buddhist monks stick their tongues out as a form of greeting and a show of respect.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

No, snowflakes was originally the problem and is again, Barney or no Barney--falling things in the uchikoshi. Need a different winter kigo. Muffler, mittens, wool cap. . . ?

bandit said...

Oh, that's right! I've had some distraction here today - hopefully I've just put it to rest, though i think its going to come back. Tough luck, that. I'm embarrassed now.

Gee, Linda, you keep saying that like we know anything we stick a tongue out for is falling.

Well, perhaps nothing for it but to check the proverbial drawing board.

Would some forth right discussion help?

sandra said...

Okay, how about Linda offers us some verses for this position, we haven't had her voice for a while?

As I've said previously, my head's full of cold, not the best time to be trying to keep a tab on renku rules so apologies for that.

I'll keep quiet until my thinking's clearer ....

bandit said...

Are you sure you didn't give me your cold?
Oh dear, and besides my comments missing the mark, might the last have been too "tongue-in-cheek"?

...OK, alright, I'll stop now.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Yes, I know I haven't contributed in a while. Life has intervened and I can't seem to clear my head either. Also, I like the second line of this one so much I can't seem to bring myself to write a competitor.

Here are a list of humanity category winter kigo I come up with from Higginson that might go with it:

long underwear
sweater
overcoat
blanket
muffler
snow-shoveling
fireplace
snow throwing
ski
common cold
breath is white
freezing shadow
basking in the sun

Here's one cobbled together from a couple of yours:

piling up the snowballs
as we sing the Barney song

I promise I'll submit for the next. . .

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Let me follow up by saying what I feel the link is--

In the maeku we have the lake at its natural rim. A moment of balance, nature in its perfection.

The Barney song verse extends this into human topics. Momentarily we're part of nature--so long as we're in child mind.

If the kigo problem of 'falling' can be solved (it's not snow per se that's the problem, just in its flake form), it's a verse that IMO is sheer perfection for this slot.

PS--auspiciously, the word verification I must type in to post this comment is "uncrow";-D

bandit said...

I know what you mean, yet its the unabashed visual of the 'tongue sticking out' that I found so enchanting.

Poor Barney! Allow me to try a different direction:

a paper mum
falls from the pages

astir in its depths
the lake
at its natural rim

# 18

each star tonight
a tone of the watch night bell

New Year's - a bell rung 108 times to note/expel the 108 earthly desires.
Of course, this loses some of the levity that was so appealing.

Linda Papanicolaou said...

Beautiful. Is it a winter verse, though?

Linda Papanicolaou said...

What's required by the form? If we let this one go in non-seasonal, with tongue sticking out and the Barney song, then do the winter verse next, the problem is that there wouldn't be room for a non-seasonal buffer between before the three closing spring verses.

bandit said...

Clever girl.

Odd, but I consider 'sticking your tongue out' a method for catching snow, ('s that a Minnesota thing? Well, go figure, I am Norweigian, though I don't allow any handicaps to overwhelm my life)and Sandra's stated link is water...(did I mention sticking your tongue out at someone is a greeting and sign of respect of Buddhist monks in some Tibetian regions? No wonder John has a Barney collection on VHS)

Our betters may not accept the change of form, either. Those would be my "arguments", to maintain this most recent course, though we're certainly not required to use the 'watch night bell' verse.

Finally, in answer to your question, I found the 'bell' kigo at Meister Z's (Shiki)kiyose under the winter heading. I do enjoy the prosody it creates; might we attempt that refreshing lightness of style Barney/Sandra provided earlier in our succeeding # 19 stanza?

Thanks for your compliment, by the way; I was hoping not to write a cliche.

We should let at least one other team member concur with this proposal. Let's check in later tonight/today.

bandit said...

Ach! Went and did it again.
Barney; winter; tongue; non-season; I've been in such a fog.
Are you sure Barney isn't a fanatical cult leader?

In my defense, I just awoke from a cold-induced coma, sprawled on the couch with two dogs to stay warm.

John Merryfield said...

Sorry for my absence. It was a long day at work and tomorrow looks the same.
It looks like you're in a pickle with #18? #19?. Wish I could help... can't make heads or tails of it all.

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