The Tiniest Pebble
an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice / john
your words mingle
with the sound of rain / sandra
above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key / linda
the scent of memory
lies in weathered wood / willie
the frozen moon,
a dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye / takke
but for a yearling's breath
stillness holds the dawn / willie
**************************
showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas / sandra
above, a redbreast
clings to a pine / linda
engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of the pacifists / john
teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo /sandra
quick out the back
to the morning train's
clatter and smoke / willie
passing a bottle,
they spoke of their dreams / john
afterwards,
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk / sandra
ink caps sprout in clusters
down the coppice path / linda
up the ladder,
picking the nashi,
picking the moon / sandra
a paper mum
falls from the pages / willie
*************************
astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim / john
each star tonight
a tone from the watch night bell / willie
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill / linda
young painted ponies
leap from stone walls / john
through the rain,
the cherry blossoms move
just a little / sandra
green tea and bird song
to mark another day / john
Completed October 1st, 2010
John Merryfield
Linda Papanicolao
Sandra Simpson
William Sorlien
Shinjuku Rollingstone (guest)
First Place Winner, Journal of Renga and Renku 2010 renku contest
.
287 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 287 of 287So sorry about the cold--I believe that it too is a kigo. I think your star/bell verse works nicely too. Tossing it back into sabaki's lap. . .
I like the bells Willie, and if it's a new year thing then it's clearly winter.
How about a real Minnesota winter verse? I heard Garrison Keillor say once that there are 3 seasons in Minnesota - winter, after winter and waiting for winter!
half-way up the flagpole,
my frozen tongue
Garrison. I used to attend that theater, The Fitzgerald, well, it was the World then, go to movies with the other urchins, stuff like Dirty Harry, Billy Jack, Vanishing Point - rats would be criss-crossing the aisles during the shows, and we'd be smoking cigarettes and slamming syrupy soft drinks, playing one-up on each other.
The loop, W 7th St, ran past and kids would cruise around and around, some in hot cars - Chargers, Camaros, Mustangs.
My Dad was an usher at the Orpheum
during the Depression 'round the corner, and the Mission never moved until near the end of the century.
I came to St. Paul in '69, and my Dad made me get a paper route. Two, in fact. It was winter, and coming from a warmer climate, I still had no Long Johns or real winter gear to speak of. I remember the first morning on the route. It was 37 degrees below zero (fahrenheit).
I thought I was gonna die...
Back then, the Midwest was always five years behind the coasts in modern development and fashion.
Somebody once called this a 'city of thieves'.
Ah, coffee's on... 'tongue on the flagpole'...Ha!
Yeeaaahh, let's go with "watch bells'.
Shoot. 200 some comments. I didn't even see you on the next page.
Thanks, everyone, for the input.
# 19.
pity the paperboy
without his longjohns
longjohns=winter
Pity it's more of a Ha verse. I've heard stories about those Minnesota winters.
Off now to go over the Donner Pass. . .
Ah, I see that the bell is placed. Nice. Okay, for a three-line non-seasonal verse, here's a try:
1) I've been going down the topics list at Renku Home and see that what we don't seem to have so far includes study and learning, entertainment, place name, insect, fish, historical event and scheduled event. For this spot in the renku, third verse into the kyu and following two nature verses, I'm thinking a human topic. Study and learning, maybe--
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
each star tonight
a tone from the night watch bell
why did he paint
that frown on the girl
in the yellow dress
where is she going
so quickly, that girl
in the yellow dress
while the men talk
and posture, the girl
has found food
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Nightwatch_by_Rembrandt.jpg
I see the link hasn't pasted properly. It's to wikipedia's picture of The Night Watch by Rembrandt
Thanks for the report, Linda. (I've just regained access.) It's not easy to cover "all" topics in 22 verses.
John, let us know if you have a submission, please. (And there's never any penalty in taking a pass -I've taken a few)
I'd like to press a little for time (the 1st arrives Friday) and if we can schedule our reviews of candidates for this time of day, we should glide right in before the contest deadline.
I look forward to your combined discussion when I return, probably around midnight (two hours or so)
hey Willie... nothing to contribute for #19. I'll have more time tomorrow and through the week for other verses.
This one is going to be up to you Willie, your choice. I don't feel inclined to comment on Linda's offering as opposed to my own, doesn't seem right.
The only thing with the first two of my offerings is, of course, the word "yellow", occurred to me after I posted. Hmm.
How about:
why did he paint
that frown on the girl
in the silk dress
where is she going
so quickly, that girl
in the silk dress
while the men talk
and posture, the girl
has found food
Well, for accuracy, this has been another learning experience for me!
Frankly, I love the phrase 'a candle gutters'. I'm a bit like a bird who admires shiney things for its nest, in that respect.
I find the meaning behind 'the girl' a bit ambiguous, if not taken literally. I should say my mind finds it so, somehow expecting more is implied yet pausing, a hitch step in concentration, to wonder when perhaps we should be moving on.
I would choose 'a candle' for # 19.
Don't worry John, I'm just doing this now because I probably won't have much time in the next 24 hours.
each star tonight
a tone from the night watch bell
/ willie
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
/ linda
three-day-old lamb
tries a skip or two
wriggling with legs
the shepherd's sack
in the lamb pen,
a lick of sunlight
BTW Willie, does "dips his quill" commit kannonbiraki with "inkcaps"?
Just thought I'd ask!
That's a damn good question.
I think distance may be the key between the 'inky' verses, and the intent of each phrase.
I recall we resolved a similar conundrum in another poem - let me try to find it for reference.
It should be alright--there's a 5-verse avoidance between use of the same word. We don't have quite that but the monk verse doesn't actually use the word 'ink', and the verses do belong to two different topic categories.
If it continues to bother you though, an alternate might be
a candle gutters
as the old monk
shuts his book
PS--my favorite link is the shepherd's sack. I like the way it doesn't actually show the lamb. And in fact there would be a good segue with 'shuts his book'--birth coming out of closure.
Yes, Linda described it better, Sandra. 'Avoidance and topic'.
(Didn't find that example; fell back to the couch in a blubbering sniffle!)
Yowsa! It's 11 am! I just lost the morning! I hope you're feeling better.
Be back later...
Thanks, Willie. As I understand we're racing to the submissions deadline for the Triparshva contest, I'm trying to think the way Norman approaches things. He thinks in terms of 'persistence and avoidance' rather than backlinking (which he says doesn't exist as a proscription). Moi has also coined a term 'judicious repetition'-- that's what makes the difference between art and a bunch of verses strung together like an obstacle course.
The other thing they're both big on (which we haven't much addressed at all, is the 'styles of linking' (this person, this place, time of day, weather, empathy, literary references...). I suppose we should check for that too if there's any time left.
Hey the word verification is "preduzzy", a perfect explanation of the headspace. Two days in bed, the next day feeling worse, y'day slightly better, now a consumptive cough has set in. Preduzzy, indeed.
My question re the inky-linky was sparked by a comment of John's -"moth" was rejected in a kasen because "mansion" had already been used (both have wings). He didn't believe that was entirely sensible but pointed to it as an example, nonetheless, of pitfalls.
If others are happy, that's fine.
I have some disquiet re your suggested approach, Linda, of ticking Norman's boxes. I guess it's smart to do what the judge likes, but only if that chimes with what we, as the writers, also like.
I think there's very little to be gained from being copyists, and from my own standpoint as a writer, I find the suggestion that I do what someone else wants rather offensive (without wishing to offend!).
A linked verse is a product of the "moment(s)" and those involved. What we produce, no one else can. That's what makes it ours. And sometimes deviation from the norm is where the excitement is.
Well, of course, one writes for oneself, but having been a member of Moi and Norman's groups for a while now I find that their approach is actually open and sensible, and when I'm leading I always listen to their critique.
Moi, for instance, has been leading an effort to get beyond 'word linking'. I tend to heart link myself but am really trying to get a feeling for scent.
I guess I'd have to have sees the butterfly/mansion link in context to understand what the problem was with it.
#20 Spring? If so, consider...
painted ponies fly
off cave walls
That's odd, Sandra, some of my symptoms run opposite sequentially.
Must be the reason whirlpools swirl opposite depending on the hemisphere - ya think?
We're good with the ink-a-dink (performed after hana in some circles, I'm told)
I would have liked to refer to a topics list, established by esperienced sabaki, and kept better track of ja-ti-ba (first, third person and place) etc., though I'll need substantially more leadership time under my belt to keep "all these balls in the air".
Meaning no disrespect, and taking Norman and Moi's EL fiefdom aside, plus my own need to thoroughly understand a craft (even if it takes years), I've been concentrating more on prosody and rhythm, the way a poem sounds.
Experience will tell the tale over time, I'm sure.
I appreciate your comment having considered these same issues.
Now we just need to hear from John.
I go on instinct and commit kannonbiraki, use cut verse, etc. and let sabaki clean it all up. If I get the season correct, and whether its a long or short verse, I'm good to go! Is #20 Spring of Autumn?
Ah, there you all are.
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
# 20
wriggling with legs
the shepherd's sack
/ Sandra
painted ponies
fly off the cave walls
/ John
Wow. Two stanzas, under ten syllables. Great!
Both direct, to the point.
Sandra's might add a little more humor, though John's is a more direct link, maybe with an underlying analogy. Do you see it?
I have an idea that I'd like to run past you.
We take John's 'ponies' and use a verse in hand for the blossom position:
painted ponies
fly off the cave walls / john
as clouds gather (for example)
the cherry blossoms move
just a little / Sandra
Of course, we could do just the opposite and create a new blossom verse, or any other option.
I'd like to hear your comments, please.
And yes, please, comment on your own verse if you wish.
At this juncture I wouldn't worry about formalities. We all want the same thing, a good renku, and no one's feeling's should be hurt.
I'll check back if my son, (facebook boy) allows it tonight.
I like John's ponies very much, though can't necessarily see the link (my fault, not his). We have had "yearling" previously and I would read that as young horse (ie pony).
Pony is a spring kigo.
My link btw was vellum - lambskin (and calfskin) used to be used to make "paper" for books. Also, old (guttering candle)to new.
Go with your gut Willie and I'll be happy. Either way is good.
Yes John, it's Spring (I had posted autumn in error) and that's a good philosophy for writing, one I closely followed!
Oh, those 'ponies' could "leap" from the walls, couldn't they? The writing on cave walls preceding the monk with his quill on vellum, (i write more like a caveman, following 'gut' quite often, Sandra)
And then I thought of the cherry blossom viewing, returning us to peace as they move 'just a little'.
Any other comments or ideas, please?
The writing monk to cave painting feels rather closer than we have been linking so I'd tend to go with the shepherd (yes, we did have yearlings, didn't we, but it was a while back).
Sabaki's choice as always.
I think Sandra's verse works just as well in this position, but as far as a closer link... since we're now in KYU, I figured I would quiet down the larger leaps I was taking in HA.
Though John's 'ponies' is a v.good and interesting verse, if a *Spring* verse is what's wanted in this position,I have to tell you that ponies *aren't* young horses.
They are small horses, of whatever age: Timor Ponies, Shetland Ponies, Welsh Ponies, Paint Ponies etc. Whether a horse is a horse or a pony depends on how many hands tall it is at the withers. (Under about 14 and a half hands is a pony, if I recall correctly)
I hope this information is useful.
..to be clearer: what defines a pony is how many hands high it is, measured at the withers, at *maturity*. How tall the breed grows to.
http://worldkigo2005.blogspot.com/2006/08/horse-uma.html
In other words, you need a qualifier for 'ponies'...but considering 'old' in the previous verse, I'd imagine you wouldn't want 'young painted ponies' (urgh)or 'baby ponies'.(too, too twee)
The options seem to be to change ponies to colts, fillies or foals...none of which make as good poetry as 'painted ponies'.
think the butterfly/mansion kannonbiraki example referred to both topics having wings, an example held up as "overzealousness", perhaps, of a particular unnamed sabaki, Linda.
Lorin, that is a wealth of information! I need not touch on it again as you've made it perfectly clear, (i'm interested in the height issue, involving withers, though I'm more familiar with dogs) though I will share with you that I've seated a horse -twice - in my life. Once as a kid in a redneck town, Denver, CO, (that horse was Tall!) and later, invited to ride as a teenager with a girl who fancied me. (imagine that rare occurence!) An innocuous little nag she was...the horse, the horse!!
As for ponies as kigo, the description seems to be implied in that literature, as we have implications involving a paper mum; oragami or kire-e, did you say, Linda? Folded or flat?
To me, I really don't consider the distinction - for all I know, it could be a magic paper mum -maybe it could become a butterfly.
Linda made mention of our subtlety
of linkage thus far (esoteric, almost, isn't it?) and I agree with that observation.
The 'painted ponies' could 'leap' from the walls-or they could be described differently.
Let me be honest, though: as much as I'd like to see John on the board, I have a slight preference for the 'wriggling' verse, maybe just for that word! and a slightly humorous tone.
The two candidates are so close! Length, purpose, alliteration...The problem is, I've really been taken with the idea of blossoms moving 'just a little', as in Sandra's verse we have up our sleeve.
All aboard here seem tacitly united to avoiding taking two verses in a row, and I certainly will honor that.
To reiterate:
Example I
astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim
each star tonight
a tone from the night watch bell
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
painted ponies
(leap from cryptic stone)
as clouds gather
the cherry blossoms move
just a little
Example II
astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim
each star tonight
a tone from the night watch bell
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
wriggling with legs
the shepard's sack
All comments, ideas, asides, welcome!
painted ponies
leap the cave's wall
Just a suggestion.
Might it be read leap from or leap over; real painted ponies or horses painted on the walls?
(Cause that's what I want. I have an early memory of watching a Western in a movie theatre with my mum, she loved the movies, and being fascinated by the horses of the "Indians", you know the shot where the camera looks up as the horses leap across the sky.)
painted ponies
leap the sky
Back to you maestro ...
Willie... I'm not one who thinks that one person should not take two verses in a row. I've seen it before in others that work fine, even add to the unique order and structure. I like Sandra's two verses together and favor using..
as clouds gather
the cherry blossoms move
just a little
somehow, somewhere in this renku.
If you do want to use my verse, I suggest your version (leaping from cyptic stone) which still holds true to the link and vision , but is less specific and might have more of the feel your looking for.
Sorry...I don't understand. Where is the Spring kigo or seasonal reference in John's verse, then? Or are you saying that 'ponies' somehow implies Spring?
Or maybe relying on mistranslations between Japanese and English? (small becoming confused with young) If so, interesting position, and in that case... gotta go, the dog is barking at my neighbour's grand-midgets.
Hi Lorin,
I picked up "pony" (/colt) as a spring word from the 500 Essential Words List that is linked from the front page of this blog.
I see now that it is classified as "late spring" so wonder if that is able to come before a blossom verse anyway?
I bow to the knowledge of others.
However, ahem, if "cryptic stone" was a serious suggestion then I may have to draw the line somwehere in its vicinity.
Stone can't be "cryptic" (plus I don't think it's good poetry!). Sorry, but I do have a thing about logic (though don't expect it if you argue with me, ha!).
Hi Sandra,
Yes, it's a fact that 'pony' is listed in some EL saijiki as a synonym for 'colt', 'filly' or 'foal'. But the facts are that it isn't a synonym for those. The Japanese Spring kigo/s relating to horses all mean *young* horses, that's clear.
The point is, do we perpetrate misunderstanding or mistranslation when it is not in the spirit of Japanese kigo? eg, for Spring, various young animals are kigo. I truly am trying to be helpful here.
Whether 'pony' would pass as a Spring reference would depend on who's reading the verse. It *might* depend only on whether it can be found in an EL saijiki (in which case, ignore me, for the present)But it might, on the other hand, depend on the reader's understanding of the English language and whether they know a little about horses. As far as I know, the Irish are generally pretty good on horses.
It's common sense against a mistranslation or misunderstanding. All anyone needs to do is google a definition of 'pony' or try wikipedia, if in doubt. And that includes the judges of the contest Willie intends to submit this to. The only reason I came on & commented was that I didn't think it was worth the risk.
I like John's verse a lot, but to me it's a no-season verse.
I always associate yearling with that '40's movie about the boy who "adopts" a young deer.
Gregory Peck played the father?
Yeah, it's cryptic to me right now, too, Sandra.
What's a reference for "dark cave wall" that doesn't actually say "dark cave wall" in three or four syllables or so?
painted ponies leap from...
these hidden stones;
an ancient rune;
a hidden grotto;
the darkened cove;
...maze;
It might be timely for some claity Willie - in my part of the world it's early Weds evening so the deadline is rushing towards me.
Are we to take it that you are rejecting the objection to "ponies" and that this is the verse you wish to have here?
If so, we could all then turn our minds to it and see what we can come up with.
I'm led to believe that the blossom verse is sorted, but we must leave time for the author of the ageku to do some considering and pondering - hence my request for movement/a decision on the current position.
ditto to Sandra
I've already expressed my liking for the shepherd's sack, but since the ponies seems to be still afloat, my comments on it:
I agree completely with Lorin that it's non-seasonal. That said, I've looked at various schema Norman has devised for the triparshva (always daunting preparing a renku for a contest in which the judge is the creator of the form). I do see a scheme that has only two spring verses at the end, though it's a spring trip and thus front-loaded.
Come to think of it, I guess I always thought from kasen that there should be some sort of aesthetic balance between the major seasons but now it looks to me from the sample triparshva schema at Renku Reckoner that there's a strong tilt towards spring. Hmm. Is this a necessity? What if we just accept a non-seasonal verse for that slot and have two bang-up spring verses for blossom and ageku?
Of course, as Sandra said, one should always write for oneself--intending to enter a contest does put a snake in the garden, doesn't it?
Two wit, in the end, go with your instinct, Willie. I'm not so worried for the author of the ageku--the best ideas area always those that hit first--but you do need to leave yourself time to edit it.
PS--summer before last I was in Paris and saw some of those Przewalski's Horse at the zoo. Talk about time tripping back to Lascaux!
It's not as lively as the original or the version with 'leap' (which I liked), but would this work for John's:
painted ponies
thaw on the cave wall/ J
?
as clouds gather
the cherry blossoms move
just a little / S
Snow-melt and thaw are probably early Spring kigo? The sense of movement is sequential between the two verses, from first stirrings (thaw) to gathering clouds and blossoms moving 'just a little', so the flow is moving nicely toward the ageku (imo, anyway)
Thanks for steppin' up people-
Some arsonists set the storage garage on fire and then to discover the house tenants (I just rent the garage) were stealing items prior to the fire...tsk, tsk tsk, naughty, naughty!
No great loss, mostly an affront to pride. Ya gotta be damn careful how you respond to that...one can easily overreact.
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
painted ponies
leap from gray stone walls
as clouds gather
cherry blossoms move
just a little
(I grew to like those goldang ponies!)
sort it out later, aye?
ageku-I love pressure, don't you?
It's a lovely sequence and I hate to say this but . . .
I was combing back through the renku to see what kind of imagery might be good for the ageku when I realized that 'as clouds gather' sort of steps on the toes of the overcast in the hokku. My understanding has been that the hokku stands in a category by itself. Persistence/avoidance out the window, nothing except the ageku can hark back to it.
I could be overreacting here and if so please just shout me down--I had to mention it.
Okay, back with an idea for ageku:
We have voices and the sound of rain in the hokku and waki, possible implication of a singing bird in v.8, and the night watch bell in v. 18, but as I check the topic list I don't see that we actually have human music, and I feel that I kind of want to look back to the hokku at this point (though our sabaki at the last YT renku said her Japanese teachers said it's bad form to do that). Nonetheless...
as clouds gather,
the cherry blossoms move
just a little
shakuhachi
on the warm spring breeze
Yes, Linda, believe it or not, I had considered "overcast morning' in relation to 'clouds gather', and the implications thereof, but avoided mention until # 20 was in the "bank" and waiting to hear discussion / objection of 'cherry blossoms move-just a little'.
I recall considering "music" a short while ago, also, but something came up; ah, well, in any case, as you may recall Sandra's "hokku" that has now evolved to "blossom", stated in L1,'clouds gathering'.
My own mental note involved the possibility of an L1 change, more to suit a uchikoshi verse, though lines 2 and 3 accomodate a link to 'ponies' leaping.
Therefore, we have flexibility in this regard.
Thanks for for keeping a sharp eye, and the valuable notes you've included.
Now that I have access here again (I've been trying to keep it down to a dull roar) I will mention we could solicit edits to the aforementioned 'cloud' line
as well without undue delay.
I'm looking forward to these candidates for ageku-quite the anticipation!
Grin--I think of renku as an iceberg, most of it underwater. The verses that don't get placed continue to resonate in the writers' heads. And even if they aren't aware of it, readers too will somehow feel what didn't make it into the final poem.
I have another minor fixable kigo glitch to mention but it's back farther and I will hold my tongue a bit longer.
Well, no, I've looked again and it's actually not so minor.
But now having tossed kerosene on the fire I will shut up until we're in editing.
boat rowing
in a stream of warm air
(This is a qi gong movement)
And although, as Linda points out, there may be implied bird song in v8, and other references to drinks, I thought I might offer for fun:
green tea and bird song
end the day nicely
Oh, that's charming, John.
I've always wanted to learn tai chi. I suppose there are videos; otherwise, classes are out of the question for the moment.
I don't have a candidate for ageku-
excluding a proposal from Sandra, I'll let these verses "percolate" as I ramble on some now...
I assume we may have an issue with
vision, Hawkeye:
the frozen moon,
a dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye
...yearling...
showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas
...red breast...
teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo
For line 1 of # 7, a suggestion:
(his tale of running)
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas
Recall of Hokku may be in bad taste, you say?
I wish I had more examples from the source, or examples to the contrary. Sadly, I lack this information.
Gee, John, you'll make this blog a household name...
'shakuhachi', breathing meditation... Damn! That's vivid!
'boat rowing in a stream of warm air'
Shucks, is 'boat rowing' assigned as kigo?
Let me see, and I will check entry requirements...
No, the spring kigo is 'warm', but the verse may not suit our needs. I'll work on some others for tomorrow.
Entry procedure (Triparshva Contest)
The leader or sabaki of the poem is designated the contest entrant and should do the following:
1. Send a clean copy of the poem (stripped of initials, schema notes, renju’s names etc.) as a Word (or RTF) document attachment to RengaRenku@gmail.com (RengaRenku AT gmail DOT com)
2. Mark the subject line: Triparshva contest/name of poem/name of sabaki, e.g. Triparshva contest/Beneath Thin Snow/Norman Darlington
3. In the body of the email, paste the following text:
I hereby confirm that I have obtained consent from all of the participating poets to enter this poem in the JRR contest, and to offer it for publication by JRR
4. There is no need to list the names or number of poets who contributed to the poem. We’ll contact you later for this information if we decide to publish.
*****************
There it is-um, would you believe I've never prepared a Word Document?
Let's not go into it...
William Sorlien(williamsorlien@yahoo.com)
and a title?
First things first; the last stanza:
shakuhachi
in a warm spring breeze
boat rowing
in a stream of warm air
(other?)
I've changed my mind twice. Knock me over with a feather.
A kigo glitch you say?
Reviewing again...
Gotcha, John, I see the 'warm'.
Just a little over-cautious, is all.
You'll have to enlighten me, Linda.
I've re-checked three kigo.
Let's assume a submission as a vote for one's own verse.
I think I will vote for
boat rowing
in a stream of warm air
for its esoteric properties.
That would leave a candidate or preference of these two from Sandra.
Sorry to rush, but I'm assuming a September 30th, 11:59 pm deadline, GMT (which is probably my error)
I nominate 'An Overcast Morning'
for the title.
I've been tweaking verses as we have proceeded and feel fairly confident of the product.
I should ask if I have made a needless issue of the aforementioned 'eye', 'showing', and 'glimpse' observation.
I ask your indulgence in finalizing
a) ageku
b) title
c) a ruling on any "visual" kannonbiraki as noted just above
d) a possible kigo "glitch"
e) any concerns for our blossom verse structure
f) other misc. notes or concerns
g) someone to properly submit, via Word document, the finished poem (my apologies)
I'll check back by morning, if not sooner. Thanks.
as for the ageku, why not John's
green tea verse? It's pretty good - has all sorts of nuances!
To amend the cherry blossom verse, may I suggest:
one patch of blue,
the cherry blossoms move
just a little
(another colour, I know)
first warm day
the cherry blossoms move
just a little
(which then rides over the shakuhachi flute)
a quiet humming,
the cherry blossoms move
just a little
(not sure if this conveys bees or just sounds weird!)
A title could be:
the tiniest pebble
it's very deep.
V3 & 8 both use the word "above" as their first word
Does V10 need a comma after "quick"?
V18: Should there be a hyphen in "night-watch"?
v20: was there a reason why simply "cave" was not used?
painted ponies
leap from the cave walls
We have "morning" in V1 & V11, and "dawn" in v6
V3: Might it be better without an "ing" - "probe"?
Thanks to all for an interesting ride. I'll try and keep an eye on things tomorrow at work, but probably won't have time (or the poetic brain in gear) to contribute.
As for Sandra's questions, I'd keep everything the way it is, with the only reservation any possible serious breach of proper form the L1 of the blossom verse, if it indeed harkens back to hokku.
Coffee...!
The kigo glitch is the tattoo verse. Bear with me as I'm afraid this'll be long as I'll try to spell it out:
1) The original template had a short run of two spring verses (9 and 10); we went to three(8, 9 and 10),which is why I felt comfortable having only two spring verses to close the kyu--we're still at our full complement of five.
2) At TRG in a trip with Chibi, there was big discussion about a tattoo Chibi wanted to put in. Both Moi and Norman came down on him saying it didn't work as autumn as he wanted because there's such a strong association of tattoos associated with summer when shirts are off.
3) As I've learned through my dojins Patricia and Jerry at YT, kigo can always be reaseasoned--I understand that your 'glimpse' of the tattoo is the reseasoning, but
4) My impression from YT is that when you reseason, it's a little like laying down a trump card--something done firmly and unequivocally. I'm a tad concerned, given my experience with the judges in a situation that was nearly the same, that 'glimpse' here goes more to the erotic function of the verse than to placing it definitively in spring.
Having said that, obviously again it's sabaki choice--I'm only being my worrywart self again.
Oh, and of course the other problem is that if the verse reverts to its underlying summer nature, you have a more serious problem of two spring verses (robin and yellow dust) followed directly by an errant summer verse that sticks a third season into the side, plus without the customary non seasonal buffer between them.
FINALLY-- let me say that I think the sequence pacifists to dragon tattoo to slipping out the back door in the morning is brilliant and am not advocating changing the verse. What it needs to nail it to spring is a real, definitive kigo. Here's a fer instance:
on the first warm day
a glimpse of dragon tattoo
Sorry, I can't help with word doc, nor the submission.
verse 3- daisan.... perhaps
"by" instead of "above"
title: I like, "the tiniest pebble"
better than "an overcast morning"
I do have to say, of my two ageku submissions, I prefer 'green tea and birdsong' ... but I realize it may throw a monkey wrench in with all the other rule analysis.
off to work, can check in later.
Back from a Mpls job briefly-
Responding to 'tattoo', reservedly,
agreement with Linda on your edit. I liked the way it read when everyone could imagine their own 'dragon tattoo! (my brain must chew on it a bit)
summer/tattoo does make sense to me. Thanks, Linda.
A ration of five spring verses, aye? Ja, there it is...
As for 'above' used twice, I'd say leave it; it achieves a sort of asymmetry in my way of thinking.
Are we still at odds with 'morning overcast' and 'as clouds gather', do you think?
In fairness, I should ask after the "green tea' ageku-any response there, please?
And we have :
the tiniest pebble...2
an overcast morning...1
Hearing no other comments at this time, I'm off to Roseville for two hours or so. Later...
We've been talking about tattoos around here; you should hear this -
Most of the people who have tattoos here consider them body art equivalent to an accessory such as earrings. I have none, not having decided to wholeheartedly display that sort of permanent symbol, (maybe a carp? or budo...) yet others here obviously do:
motorcycle "enthusiasts", uh, counter "culturists", those chicks with the ankle thing, the odd "cruiser", and in the case of the 'dragon', someone with a "slut tat' ". (not my words; a tattoo on the lower back of a person whose apparel is a midriff revealing, high-cropped top or such device).
For better or worse, it is a common American, and dare I say, western fashion statement. (never met a yakuza, though Johnny Danger has some tats. Had a live cobra and two 150 lb. Rotweillers, too.)
'...a glimpse of my dragon tattoo'
'quick out the back...'
We've heard of adhering to the principle of JP kigo, in this case,
yet we cannot allow 'ponies' to stand as established spring kigo due to the possible confusion of hand height and exotic breed names?
It rings a bit inconsistently...
I'm feeling a bit cocky right now.
Job well done, got the swag, ching-ching in the pocket, sweet southern style tea on my breath...
I feel prone to rejecting the safe stance and going recklessly hell-for-leather as written.
Tell me, tell me true,,,have I lost my mind?
Oh, and the other stuff previous...
Print it as is, my friend!
Would you jump off a bridge...?
I'm finding ponies and cherry blossoms listed as late spring at the "500". I see 'blossom haze' (a marvelous phrase!) as late spring, also.
re: concern of recalling hokku in the blossom verse, might we consider
through a haze,
cherry blossoms move
just a little
Oh, and to be clear, I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone offering their expertise on the kigo issue in my "diatribe".
I was just pointing out a matter of consistency in following rules, a position in which we find ourselves inadvertantly placed, and noted. I offer an argument, though I am still available to reason!
'That said, please consider -
an overcast morning
the tiniest pebble
has a voice
your words mingle
with the sound of rain
above the cottage door,
my fingers probing
for a key
the scent of memory
lies in weathered wood
the frozen moon,
a dullish gleam
in grandfather's eye
but for a yearling's breath
stillness holds the dawn
**************************
showing how he ran
for the doorway, the boy
in Batman pyjamas
above, a red breast
clings to a pine
engulfed entirely
by the yellow dust
of the pacifists
teasingly, a glimpse
of my dragon tattoo
quick out the back
to the morning train's
clatter and smoke
passing a bottle,
they spoke of their dreams
afterwards
she offers the war hero
another glass of milk
ink caps sprout in clusters
down the coppice path
up the ladder,
picking the nashi,
picking the moon
a paper mum
falls from the pages
************************
astir in its depths,
the lake
at its natural rim
each star tonight
a tone from the night watch bell
a candle gutters
as the old monk
dips his quill
painted ponies
leap from gray stone walls
through a haze,
cherry blossoms move
just a little
Ageku
The haze is nice, though I'm not sure I'd use it because it's overkill--double kigo.
In this case no risk for the contest because I've never had an inkling that either Moi or Norman care much about double kigo, but at YT I'm learning not to do it. You want to let the blossoms shine and a second season word steals from them.
You know, a way out is to use 'rain' as a stand-in for the gathering storm. Though one should steer clear of the hokku, the waki is fair game.
before the rain,
cherry blossoms move
just a little
in the gathering rain
cherry blossoms move
just a little
in a passing shower
cherry blossoms move
just a little
I also like letting the gray walls of the cave supply the clouds for the storm and not actually saying them in the verse.
I've already responded twice re the green tea verse, I fear you will think this is overkill.
John and I have already spoken for "the tiniest pebble" ...
And really my "question" re the hyphen in "night-watch" wasn't a question, but a suggestion - let's put one in. The phrase needs it. Three nouns in a row don't sit easily with the eye.
before the rain,
cherry blossoms move
just a little
very nice, Linda. I had earlier suggested revisions, but perhaps they were no good. Weren't commented on anyway.
And 'the tiniest pebble' wins by a landslide!
I've been finding the night watch bell presented without hyphen - I'll check back to ensure its not my oversight.
A little personal discomfort with the Green Tea ref. I'm sure you understand...though Johnny *is* a co-founder!
I didn't miss the blossom revisions-in haste, I did mention they sounded a bit "cut", and things were left to roll 'til final call. "Not good enough"?
Now you got me laughin', Slowhand!
Don't put yourself down. girl. Sometimes I talk tough (in haste) but don't mean to be.
Check the main page for final draft.
sandra said
I had earlier suggested revisions, but perhaps they were no good. Weren't commented on anyway
Apologies then if you suggested it already--I am finding it very difficult to deal with the long comment thread and I'm losing a lot of the discussion.
Sorry for the two deletions--just me saying things with lots of typo errors again.
Nice final draft --adding "young" to the ponies really energizes it, doesn't it?
I do like the way "just a little" flows down to become a first line with the ageku.
Either "An Overcast Morning" or "The Tiniest Pebble" would be fine with me for a title though I do like the way the Pebble sits there waiting for "just a little / green tea and birdsong" to come up at the end before it blossoms fully.
Yes, the thread becomes daunting, though the same format exists at Issa's Snail - it keeps you on your toes, although reviewing can become laborious.
Went with "...Pebble" by popular demand, as well as 'green tea' for ageku.
Was concerned for the ageku repeating this blog's title, wondering if the choice was sincere, yet it sounds fine.
(Your shakuhachi verse reminded me of Haiga Online, which is not a bad thing)
We have receipt of confirmation of entry at RRJ. We're good to go...
Thanks all for your patience and encouragement in this endeavor, and especially for the teaching moments you all provided me in my role here.
Please stay in touch, and I will return to check further commentary.
Thanks for the invitation to be part of this Willie. Being primarily a writer of haiku, I find renku needs a lot of thought adjustment - but that's all to the good.
I have emailed you a copy of the poem (as of Friday my time) as a Word document so hope that helps the submission process.
Good luck to us all, eh?
So nice to meet you, John and Linda, and thanks to all for the interesting discussions.
Best wishes,
Sandra
A pleasure working with all of you, too, and a triple pleasure being a part of such an exquisite poem. Thanks for the invitation, Willie.
Honored to be included and inspired by all. I learned more from this renku then anytime previous. Thanks for your hard work Willie!
Ja, you betcha!
I almost forgot - we will probably need your name, state and country for writing credits -
I have the following on file:
Linda Papanicolaou
Sunnyvale, California, USA
John Merryfield
Tahoe City, California, USA
Sandra Simpson
Tauranga, Gisborne, New Zealand
Shinjuku Rollingstone
Kumamoto, Japan
William Sorlien
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Hi Willie,
Please amend my "place" to read:
Tauranga, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
(not sure where Gisborne came from, but I know where it is - easily 500km from where I'm sitting right now!)
Thanks,
Sandra
Not Sunnyvale--I'm in Palo Alto, Willie.
Roger that, people. It's an I.D. glitch based on the locale of your ISP - heavens to Betsy, they show me as Minneapolis, of all places!
Linda Papanicolaou
Palo Alto, California, USA
John Merryfield
Tahoe City, California, USA
Sandra Simpson
Tauranga, Bay of Plenty, New Zealand
Shinjuku Rollingstone
Kumamoto, Kumamoto, Japan
William Sorlien
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
Hey folks, I was just told that we won the renku contest at Journal of Renga and Renku:
http://www.darlingtonrichards.com/index.php/titles/purchase-journal-of-renga-renku/
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